Excited
Remember Kenneth Eng, the deranged kid who wrote the article, “Why I Hate Blacks”? (Now there’s someone who’s 24 cans short a case of beer.) I thought of him when I read this article by Robin Zhou the other day, entitled: “Latinos Lag Behind in Academics“.
Now, Zhou’s article isn’t as blatantly hateful and racist as Eng’s, but the same level of cultural stereotyping and ignorance is there. His central theme is that Latino parents are “less active” than Asian parents in “[pushing] their children to move toward academic success”. Therefore, “while few Hispanic students enter the honors track, culturally influenced lack of preparation, not prejudice, is to blame” for “the Hispanic student population as a whole [lagging] behind its Asian counterpart.”
Wow, yikes. He’s a few fries short a happy meal it seems.
A friend forwarded me this article and actually knew him back in high school, where he published this paper. (Oops: I mistakenly referred to Robin as a “she,” but I had misheard my friend and Robin’s really a “he.” My bad.) His description of Robin struck me as a revealing peek into the mind of someone who’d write an article like this.
“I’d describe him as an over-achiever,” he said. “Straight A’s, very studious.”
“Shy and introverted?” I asked.
“Nope. Very extroverted. Very involved. But I never saw him hanging around with any Latino students. I think all of his friends were Asian.”
“Was he born here?”
“Yup, an ABC. First generation. After his article was published, the LA Times picked it up and there was a huge uproar in the community, especially from Latino parents.”
“Did he apologize for what he wrote?”
“Nope. He just said that next time, he’d keep his thoughts to herself.”
“So he didn’t feel bad for what he wrote? He didn’t see anything wrong with it?”
“Nope on both.”
Stereotyping is a funny thing, isn’t it? I could argue that every one of us has exhibited some form of stereotyping before. In many ways, it’s a necessary psychological trait. Our minds are built to make generalizations of unfamiliar things, because it’s impossible to know everything out there. It’s a defense mechanism.
For instance, say you see a saber-toothed tiger bite the head off a neighbor. You’re bound to stereotype all other tigers, be they panthers or leopards or cougars, as head-biting animals after that. Rare will be the person who’ll stand there and go, “Well now, this tiger-looking creature doesn’t have orange stripes like the last one. It’s got polka-dots. Same claws though, and fangs and—” CHOMP!
Still, this holdover trait from a previous era isn’t an excuse for an Eng or a Zhou, just as genetics isn’t an excuse to not hire someone based on their ethnicity. I once had a job interview where the interviewer actually said to me, “This position will require a lot of math. But that’s no problem for you since you’re Asian.” Sir, there’s a big fat WTF on line 2 for you.
Ignorance is perhaps a better explanation for Zhou’s article. He’s obviously academically intelligent. So why the arrogance of her assumptions? Why the naivety behind publishing such an article and not realizing its social impact on her peers? Why the broad declarative statements based on purely anecdotal and biased observations of her own? Where’s the data, the socio-economic analyzes, the objective reporting? (Granted, this was high school, but still…) Sadly for him, academic intelligence does not beget social intelligence. He never bothered to look beyond the sample set he made up in her own mind.
“So where there any Latinos in the AP classes there?” I asked.
“There were,” he said.
“And were there any Asian Americans in the remedial classes?” I asked.
“A few.”
I guess those were the ones who weren’t good at math, huh?
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I'm at the high school right now and "achievement gap" issue has been the craze ever since this article. There's open enrollment to the advanced classes, which still doesn't persuade anyone else to join in except Asians. I think AP classes are designed for the Asians, especially in this school. Work hard, cram, pass. I haven't really learned anything except to memorize and not mess up on tests. That's a personal view.
Recently, another issue was published, with the same premise. I didn't really read into it, because I knew it was full of confusion and unneeded stereotypes. People who work on the Newspaper are smart and of course, extroverted. Yes, just like Robin Zhou. But the problem at this school is that students hang out usually only with those of similar race. If you walk around the school, it's very obviously that the Asians hang there, the Mexicans over there, and etc. I assume a person like Robin Zhou didn't really know anyone of Hispanic descent well. It's like you see them, know their names, but then that's all. I do know some, but not enough to judge them on anything. Especially on how their parents raise them. "Not doing well in school, slackers", these stereotypical comments sicken me. It doesn't benefit anyone, and only reveals more of who a person is.
I can't blame Zhou. He's academically intelligent, yes, but lacks social intelligence, for a lack of better words. Traditional Asians value education over anything. The child could be anti-social or a psycho, but as long as grades are high, it doesn't matter. Overexaggeratiion to an extent. Hispanics, based on my experiences, value athletics and presumably just enjoying life. I'm not entirely certain about anything I said, but it adds some reasons as to why "Hispanics lack behind in education". We all have different priorities in life. Asians have theirs, Hispanics have theirs, others have their own. Many "intelligent" Asians can't see past the numbers and letters. Thus, a world of uncertainty and articles like this.
What's worse is that California is so diverse, yet these things occurs. It's fine that Zhou wrote this, freedom of speech. But to not see the impact and flaws is just being ignorant.
I'm at the high school right now and "achievement gap" issue has been the craze ever since this article. There's open enrollment to the advanced classes, which still doesn't persuade anyone else to join in except Asians. I think AP classes are designed for the Asians, especially in this school. Work hard, cram, pass. I haven't really learned anything except to memorize and not mess up on tests. That's a personal view.
Recently, another issue was published, with the same premise. I didn't really read into it, because I knew it was full of confusion and unneeded stereotypes. People who work on the Newspaper are smart and of course, extroverted. Yes, just like Robin Zhou. But the problem at this school is that students hang out usually only with those of similar race. If you walk around the school, it's very obviously that the Asians hang there, the Mexicans over there, and etc. I assume a person like Robin Zhou didn't really know anyone of Hispanic descent well. It's like you see them, know their names, but then that's all. I do know some, but not enough to judge them on anything. Especially on how their parents raise them. "Not doing well in school, slackers", these stereotypical comments sicken me. It doesn't benefit anyone, and only reveals more of who a person is.
I can't blame Zhou. He's academically intelligent, yes, but lacks social intelligence, for a lack of better words. Traditional Asians value education over anything. The child could be anti-social or a psycho, but as long as grades are high, it doesn't matter. Overexaggeratiion to an extent. Hispanics, based on my experiences, value athletics and presumably just enjoying life. I'm not entirely certain about anything I said, but it adds some reasons as to why "Hispanics lack behind in education". We all have different priorities in life. Asians have theirs, Hispanics have theirs, others have their own. Many "intelligent" Asians can't see past the numbers and letters. Thus, a world of uncertainty and articles like this.
What's worse is that California is so diverse, yet these things occurs. It's fine that Zhou wrote this, freedom of speech. But to not see the impact and flaws is just being ignorant.
Wow, comment drama. What fun!
@Kiwi: Hey man, I hear ya. I was harsh. It was admittedly a poor attempt at humor that made this seem meaner than it was meant to be. Ironically, someone had once told me that every time they posted an attempt at humor, it was always misunderstood and received the most venom from commenters. Now I know how they feel.
I think Bo said it best when she wrote "The biggest error in Zhouu00e2u0080u0099s reasoning was to u00e2u0080u009cblameu00e2u0080u009d Latino parents for their lack of care and also the assumption that the community lacks to the ability to motivate itself." She would have done this piece much more justice than I could have. I essentially felt that there was more to the argument than Zhou wrote about. Obviously happy meal comparisons aren't the best way to convey that, you think?
I don't think this is any show of anti-Asian-community-ism though. I'm not quite sure where you got that from, but perhaps you were just real livid about my post and wanted to attack all sorts of things.
Sincerely yours,
asshat
Wow, comment drama. What fun!
@Kiwi: Hey man, I hear ya. I was harsh. It was admittedly a poor attempt at humor that made this seem meaner than it was meant to be. Ironically, someone had once told me that every time they posted an attempt at humor, it was always misunderstood and received the most venom from commenters. Now I know how they feel.
I think Bo said it best when she wrote "The biggest error in Zhouu00e2u0080u0099s reasoning was to u00e2u0080u009cblameu00e2u0080u009d Latino parents for their lack of care and also the assumption that the community lacks to the ability to motivate itself." She would have done this piece much more justice than I could have. I essentially felt that there was more to the argument than Zhou wrote about. Obviously happy meal comparisons aren't the best way to convey that, you think?
I don't think this is any show of anti-Asian-community-ism though. I'm not quite sure where you got that from, but perhaps you were just real livid about my post and wanted to attack all sorts of things.
Sincerely yours,
asshat
Ok if the last line of Kiwi's last comment is taken into this thing we call *context* then you'd see he wasn't calling Vivian a "stupid whore," but rather he was saying he has the *right* to call her a "stupid whore."
And frankly I don't even know why we're having this argument. The author of this article is a HIGH SCHOOL KID. Let's all take out our own high school writings and see just how rationally sound they are.
Finally, the disparity in academic performance has, I would argue, nothing to do with race at all, and everything to do with social class and economic privilege.
Criticizing Zhou and disowning him from our community isn't in itself what reflects lack of solidarity. It's only when we adopt the values of the White community and use those values to judge people in our community with the end result of segregation that I would take issue with. There's a difference between denouncing Cho (V-Tech shooter) because we personally cannot condone acts of violence and murder and denouncing Cho because we're afraid of what the white people will think of us now.
Ok if the last line of Kiwi's last comment is taken into this thing we call *context* then you'd see he wasn't calling Vivian a "stupid whore," but rather he was saying he has the *right* to call her a "stupid whore."
And frankly I don't even know why we're having this argument. The author of this article is a HIGH SCHOOL KID. Let's all take out our own high school writings and see just how rationally sound they are.
Finally, the disparity in academic performance has, I would argue, nothing to do with race at all, and everything to do with social class and economic privilege.
Criticizing Zhou and disowning him from our community isn't in itself what reflects lack of solidarity. It's only when we adopt the values of the White community and use those values to judge people in our community with the end result of segregation that I would take issue with. There's a difference between denouncing Cho (V-Tech shooter) because we personally cannot condone acts of violence and murder and denouncing Cho because we're afraid of what the white people will think of us now.
hey kiwi,
if you're representative of the asian community you're trying to extol, i'm surprised you're doing it in such an immature manner. id expect more of you. disappointing. it kind of sounds like you're the one with low self-esteem here.
hey kiwi,
if you're representative of the asian community you're trying to extol, i'm surprised you're doing it in such an immature manner. id expect more of you. disappointing. it kind of sounds like you're the one with low self-esteem here.
Amazingly Kiwi, I actually agree with you. And there's a delightful irony that you actually agree with Vivian, but instead of debating like a rational person, you just called her "a stupid whore." Do you know why there's no such thing as an Asian community? THAT'S why.
Jeezus fucking Christ dude, what's your problem? Who fucking pissed in your cereal this morning?
Amazingly Kiwi, I actually agree with you. And there's a delightful irony that you actually agree with Vivian, but instead of debating like a rational person, you just called her "a stupid whore." Do you know why there's no such thing as an Asian community? THAT'S why.
Jeezus fucking Christ dude, what's your problem? Who fucking pissed in your cereal this morning?
Vivian, why don't you take your head out of your twat for a few precious moments and think. Please? Our friend Mike here crucifies Zhou because of his belief that cultural attitudes may have a causal relationship with poor academic performance in Latino communities, a claim that has found some popularity amongst sociologists and societal justice types (Google is your friend), on the basis of, in his own words, "anecdotal evidence" and "biased evidence" that because Zhou's friends were Asian, and has good grades. It's clear that, without much research, Mike has classified Zhou as a racist, stereotypical Asian academic overachiever who has social intelligence on the basis of his single article. Who's stereotyping now?
I look at this article, and I don't see an intelligent piece of writing. I see a low self-esteem political correctness overcompensator bashing on a kid who just happened to get the wrong amount of media coverage at the wrong time. Unfortunately for the world, Mike has the right to publish his writing, and you have the right to defend his right to bad writing. I've never disputed that. But that also means that I have the right to say that if Mike never wrote again the world would be a better place for it, and I have the right to call you a stupid whore.
Vivian, why don't you take your head out of your twat for a few precious moments and think. Please? Our friend Mike here crucifies Zhou because of his belief that cultural attitudes may have a causal relationship with poor academic performance in Latino communities, a claim that has found some popularity amongst sociologists and societal justice types (Google is your friend), on the basis of, in his own words, "anecdotal evidence" and "biased evidence" that because Zhou's friends were Asian, and has good grades. It's clear that, without much research, Mike has classified Zhou as a racist, stereotypical Asian academic overachiever who has social intelligence on the basis of his single article. Who's stereotyping now?
I look at this article, and I don't see an intelligent piece of writing. I see a low self-esteem political correctness overcompensator bashing on a kid who just happened to get the wrong amount of media coverage at the wrong time. Unfortunately for the world, Mike has the right to publish his writing, and you have the right to defend his right to bad writing. I've never disputed that. But that also means that I have the right to say that if Mike never wrote again the world would be a better place for it, and I have the right to call you a stupid whore.
hey kiwi,
though i disagere with mike and have a view like zhou's, i don't feel he's doing anything to hurt the asian community here. he has a right to publish his view as much as zhou had a right to publish his.
likening zhou to oj simpson, though, is asinine. that's where you lose me. you're saynig an ethnic community shows cultural solidarity just because they back up another person of their ethnic background, even if said person is a murderer? i wuold make a comparison to seung hui cho here to back up my point, but that would be stooping to your level. grow up.
hey kiwi,
though i disagere with mike and have a view like zhou's, i don't feel he's doing anything to hurt the asian community here. he has a right to publish his view as much as zhou had a right to publish his.
likening zhou to oj simpson, though, is asinine. that's where you lose me. you're saynig an ethnic community shows cultural solidarity just because they back up another person of their ethnic background, even if said person is a murderer? i wuold make a comparison to seung hui cho here to back up my point, but that would be stooping to your level. grow up.
I find it utterly disgusting that you use this as your personal soapbox for tearing the kid apart rather than trying to think of a way to support him. You think you're helping Asians out with your politically correct bullshit subtext of, "Oh, he's Asian, but he's not Asian like me, since I love all races GARARARA"? O.J. Simpson murders his wife and the Black community rallies behind him. Rodney King deserved to get his ass beat (per Cedric the Entertainer, Barbershop), and the community was in uproar. And instead of defending Zhou, who is clearly just a kid, you tear him apart. You wonder why there is no such thing as an Asian community? Because of asshats like you. Congratu-fucking-lations.
I find it utterly disgusting that you use this as your personal soapbox for tearing the kid apart rather than trying to think of a way to support him. You think you're helping Asians out with your politically correct bullshit subtext of, "Oh, he's Asian, but he's not Asian like me, since I love all races GARARARA"? O.J. Simpson murders his wife and the Black community rallies behind him. Rodney King deserved to get his ass beat (per Cedric the Entertainer, Barbershop), and the community was in uproar. And instead of defending Zhou, who is clearly just a kid, you tear him apart. You wonder why there is no such thing as an Asian community? Because of asshats like you. Congratu-fucking-lations.
Actually, I think Zhou's biggest error was couching his argument in such definitive language. Zhou actually touches on a lot of arguments used by academics to explain the large performance gap between different racial groups. Cultural differences probably do have an impact on behavior...which will lead to differentials in performance. And his argument that early bifercation of students into "smart" and "not smart" cohorts results in differences in quality and access to educational resources is actually a rather sophisticated view point. The biggest error in Zhou's reasoning was to "blame" Latino parents for their lack of care and also the assumption that the community lacks to the ability to motivate itself. He fails to consider the larger impact of poverty, racism, and discrimination on the Latino community. Although unwritten, Zhou clearly believes that Asian parents are "better" than Latino parents. It's unfortuante that Zhou allowed his own bias to taint what could have been an otherwise interesting discussion into the cause of the performance gap.
Actually, I think Zhou's biggest error was couching his argument in such definitive language. Zhou actually touches on a lot of arguments used by academics to explain the large performance gap between different racial groups. Cultural differences probably do have an impact on behavior...which will lead to differentials in performance. And his argument that early bifercation of students into "smart" and "not smart" cohorts results in differences in quality and access to educational resources is actually a rather sophisticated view point. The biggest error in Zhou's reasoning was to "blame" Latino parents for their lack of care and also the assumption that the community lacks to the ability to motivate itself. He fails to consider the larger impact of poverty, racism, and discrimination on the Latino community. Although unwritten, Zhou clearly believes that Asian parents are "better" than Latino parents. It's unfortuante that Zhou allowed his own bias to taint what could have been an otherwise interesting discussion into the cause of the performance gap.
Well, I have a counterpoint with regards to Asian Americans like this guy and how academic achievement ain't everything.
http://evilresident.fatoprofugus.net/2004/Mar/07/g...
http://evilresident.fatoprofugus.net/2004/Mar/08/a...
Well, I have a counterpoint with regards to Asian Americans like this guy and how academic achievement ain't everything.
http://evilresident.fatoprofugus.net/2004/Mar/07/g...
http://evilresident.fatoprofugus.net/2004/Mar/08/a...
Here's another good article about Robin Zhou's article and the controversy it ignited:
http://www.highschooljournalism.org/Content.cfm?mo...
Here's another good article about Robin Zhou's article and the controversy it ignited:
http://www.highschooljournalism.org/Content.cfm?mo...
Oops! Robin IS is "he"! My bad! I think the name threw me off and I kept thinking it was a "she" - my sincerest apologies to all male Robins out there!
Oops! Robin IS is "he"! My bad! I think the name threw me off and I kept thinking it was a "she" - my sincerest apologies to all male Robins out there!
For further reading, another article: http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=439... (Note: title - "Asian student..." and it refers to Robin Zhou as a "he")
And from my understanding, the author published this article in a high school paper and then it got picked up by the L.A. Times. Why did L.A. Times pick it up? Isn't that an interesting question...
For further reading, another article: http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=439... (Note: title - "Asian student..." and it refers to Robin Zhou as a "he")
And from my understanding, the author published this article in a high school paper and then it got picked up by the L.A. Times. Why did L.A. Times pick it up? Isn't that an interesting question...
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