Excited
An Open Letter to Asian Cultures & Asian/Asian-American parents:
Re: Misogyny & Son-Bias
Why do you hate females? Why do you feel the need to selectively abort us when you discover you’re carrying a member of the XX? Why do you retain antiquated ideas of female worth (re: virginity)? Why do you make us feel less worthy and valuable then our male counterparts? And why do you then try to guilt-trip us and call us brainwashed when we become fully acculturate in American society and partake of all the opportunities western society affords us – including dating and eventually marrying the person we truly love regardless of race and ethnic background?
I can almost (but not completely) understand why, back in a more agrarian & rural time, boys were preferred. They didn’t move away when they got married. They retained the family name. They didn’t require large dowries. They took care of you in your twilight years. I get it. At one time boys were the next best thing to a nationalized social security system. But we’ve now entered the 21st century. We have things like telephones and cars – a married daughter is no longer out of reach. A person’s long-term success is less dependent on their ability to till the soil and more to do with how well they do in school, their communication skills, capacity for creative and unique ideas, and overall technical skill set. Recent college and graduate school graduation data shows that women are graduating at a higher rate then men and perform better overall. Women don’t even have to change their last name when they get married. Once a Lee, Chang or Singh…always a Lee, Chang, or Singh. And on top of all this, girls are less likely to commit crimes, get involved in gangs, and kill themselves while trying to mimic the newest X game move. Modern birth control even eliminates the risk of unplanned teen pregnancies.
So again, I want to know why you still don’t love us as much as you love the boys? Are we not cute enough? Do you just hate the color pink? Are you uncomfortable with the idea of trying to raise a daughter and instilling a sense of worth, power, and value in her? Do you just dislike the idea that women are actually creatures worthy of life and respect?
Please help me out here? My partner and I are contemplating bringing a baby into this world. We don’t have a gender preference – all we want is a healthy, happy baby, god willing. But if you articulate a real, reasonable reason for why we should strive for a boy, please let me know so that I can make an informed decision?
But until you can rationally tell me why boys are better than girls, can you please cut out the whole pre-natal sex selection thing. It’s really bumming me out and kinda makes me want to turn my back on my own culture.
Yours truly,
A proud, strong Asian-American female.
(If you want to know what inspired this, check out this NPR story about a Census data study examining male birth rates among Asian-Americans. Not surprisingly, there is evidence that Asian-American (meaning people in this country) are using prenatal screening technology to ensure the birth of boys.)
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Been reading this and I'm puzzled. The joke with filipinos is that the daughters get married and move in with the husband's family. Whilst the son get married and move the wife in.
The girls tended to take care of the parents. Not the other way around.
Been reading this and I'm puzzled. The joke with filipinos is that the daughters get married and move in with the husband's family. Whilst the son get married and move the wife in.
The girls tended to take care of the parents. Not the other way around.
"A 40 year old who has lived his/her whole life in a small town in Iowa may have far less knowledge than a 20 year old who grew up in NYC and lived among a diverse palette of individuals."
You need to think carefully about what it is you're thinking and from there think carefully about what you are writing.
"A 40 year old who has lived his/her whole life in a small town in Iowa may have far less knowledge than a 20 year old who grew up in NYC and lived among a diverse palette of individuals."
You need to think carefully about what it is you're thinking and from there think carefully about what you are writing.
"Of course Iu00e2u0080u0099m speaking from my own perspective!" Straw-man argument and/or red herring. I never questioned your perspective. I just was curious if your own parents were misogynistic and therefore may have informed your opinion. That's all.
"Iu00e2u0080u0099ve done a lot of research in Asia (for Asian companies) to assess corporate cultures" Appeal to authority. And, research in Asia, of Asian culture is very different thing from studying Asian American culture. You'd be wise to take some time and consider the implication of speaking of both cultures together. You're addressing a very large group of people. Do you know a lot of nisei, sansei or yonsei families? Maybe it would surprise you that Asian America is diverse. The dominant hegemonic already demonizes Asians, and now we have a 'strong proud Asian American female' doing it for them.
"My parents must have damaged me forever and ever. Why is being a feminist an automatic indication of poor upbringing?" I hope you're answering a previous comment by someone else and not mine. Because I did not mean to insinuate this. I think it's probably a sensitive issue and you may have over reacted. It's been said that sarcasm is the resource of a weak mind. I wouldn't sarcastically talk about parents damaging you, it kinda detracts from your 'perspective'.
"the use of personal attack are usually a last resort tactic when all original ideas have evaporated." Poisoning the well.
I am not questioning whether there has been or is a reputation formed around some Asian cultures of son biases or misogyny. But I am questioning why YOU don't seem to understand how this is a dated and located argument that shows no concern for the diversity and range that Asian culture is around the world.
"Of course Iu00e2u0080u0099m speaking from my own perspective!" Straw-man argument and/or red herring. I never questioned your perspective. I just was curious if your own parents were misogynistic and therefore may have informed your opinion. That's all.
"Iu00e2u0080u0099ve done a lot of research in Asia (for Asian companies) to assess corporate cultures" Appeal to authority. And, research in Asia, of Asian culture is very different thing from studying Asian American culture. You'd be wise to take some time and consider the implication of speaking of both cultures together. You're addressing a very large group of people. Do you know a lot of nisei, sansei or yonsei families? Maybe it would surprise you that Asian America is diverse. The dominant hegemonic already demonizes Asians, and now we have a 'strong proud Asian American female' doing it for them.
"My parents must have damaged me forever and ever. Why is being a feminist an automatic indication of poor upbringing?" I hope you're answering a previous comment by someone else and not mine. Because I did not mean to insinuate this. I think it's probably a sensitive issue and you may have over reacted. It's been said that sarcasm is the resource of a weak mind. I wouldn't sarcastically talk about parents damaging you, it kinda detracts from your 'perspective'.
"the use of personal attack are usually a last resort tactic when all original ideas have evaporated." Poisoning the well.
I am not questioning whether there has been or is a reputation formed around some Asian cultures of son biases or misogyny. But I am questioning why YOU don't seem to understand how this is a dated and located argument that shows no concern for the diversity and range that Asian culture is around the world.
I am so, so, so sorry that your description above is what you think strong, outspoken, feminist Asian women are. So sorry.
Where in my post did I accuse Asian men? I was speaking to the larger Asian community - not singling out men. Asian women are just as guilty for perpetuating and maintaining an oppressive anti-woman ideology as men.
My post was aimed at Asian parents who unreasonably favor boys over girls - parents would imply females and males (in this case I'm not trying to exclude gay parents but I doubt gay parents would be in the same situation as straight couples.) Yeah, and I know that the study refers to third children - but honestly is that a reasonable excuse for selective termination? Just as inexcusable to me.
Hey, I think the Asian community has a lot of problems collectively (as does ever other ethnic community in this country) - overuse of physical discipline, psychological intimidation to pressure children to do things they do not want to, lack of political involvement, devaluation of professions that do not require an MD or Esq, etc... - and I know the Asian community has a lot of strengths - dedication & loyalty to family, a dogged work ethic. Is it so wrong to call out the community for something that I believe to be a serious, serious weakness?
Additionally, regardless of whether you believe the Asian community is misogynistic, the larger view of the community by outsiders is that it is. All this infighting and calling women traitors and brainwashed doesn't help the cause. I challenge you to read through any of my posts and find a place where I directly call Asian men weak and/or passive. I would never demean men in that way. I DO critique and criticize the community and some of the more pervasive and insidious problems I see in it. Whatever you want to imply from my criticism is a reflection of your own experiences.
And uRB4N's law totally work! Someone brought up Nazis!
I am so, so, so sorry that your description above is what you think strong, outspoken, feminist Asian women are. So sorry.
Where in my post did I accuse Asian men? I was speaking to the larger Asian community - not singling out men. Asian women are just as guilty for perpetuating and maintaining an oppressive anti-woman ideology as men.
My post was aimed at Asian parents who unreasonably favor boys over girls - parents would imply females and males (in this case I'm not trying to exclude gay parents but I doubt gay parents would be in the same situation as straight couples.) Yeah, and I know that the study refers to third children - but honestly is that a reasonable excuse for selective termination? Just as inexcusable to me.
Hey, I think the Asian community has a lot of problems collectively (as does ever other ethnic community in this country) - overuse of physical discipline, psychological intimidation to pressure children to do things they do not want to, lack of political involvement, devaluation of professions that do not require an MD or Esq, etc... - and I know the Asian community has a lot of strengths - dedication & loyalty to family, a dogged work ethic. Is it so wrong to call out the community for something that I believe to be a serious, serious weakness?
Additionally, regardless of whether you believe the Asian community is misogynistic, the larger view of the community by outsiders is that it is. All this infighting and calling women traitors and brainwashed doesn't help the cause. I challenge you to read through any of my posts and find a place where I directly call Asian men weak and/or passive. I would never demean men in that way. I DO critique and criticize the community and some of the more pervasive and insidious problems I see in it. Whatever you want to imply from my criticism is a reflection of your own experiences.
And uRB4N's law totally work! Someone brought up Nazis!
Itu00e2u0080u0099s already been pointed out that your initial post was base on skewed facts, Iu00e2u0080u0099m sure you were jumping for joy to use contents out of context just so you can point out how Asian men are misogynistic.
My last post did not attack you personally but you did manage to avoid all my points while going back to a null point. Love your tactics. Here is an actual personal attack,
you are another brainwashed sellout who grew up reading Amy Tan book believing Asian men are Evil and White men are your savior. Your favorite movie growing up was Breakfast at Tiffany's and sixteen candles and had such hatred for being associated with Asian men (Donger). Then you go to college and meet more brainwashed girls with the same upbringing and form a bond of FemaNazi Asian girls who spreads skewed facts about Asian men and anyone who disagreed was insecure and jealous. You think Asian men are bound by tradition and sexist while Asian women are liberated.
Itu00e2u0080u0099s already been pointed out that your initial post was base on skewed facts, Iu00e2u0080u0099m sure you were jumping for joy to use contents out of context just so you can point out how Asian men are misogynistic.
My last post did not attack you personally but you did manage to avoid all my points while going back to a null point. Love your tactics. Here is an actual personal attack,
you are another brainwashed sellout who grew up reading Amy Tan book believing Asian men are Evil and White men are your savior. Your favorite movie growing up was Breakfast at Tiffany's and sixteen candles and had such hatred for being associated with Asian men (Donger). Then you go to college and meet more brainwashed girls with the same upbringing and form a bond of FemaNazi Asian girls who spreads skewed facts about Asian men and anyone who disagreed was insecure and jealous. You think Asian men are bound by tradition and sexist while Asian women are liberated.
And for those individuals attaking Jun just b/c of his youth. Wow! Ageism at its best. I've met a lot of people in their 40s and 50s who could use a dose of Jun's wisdom. Age is absolutely no indication of intelligence or experience. A 40 year old who has lived his/her whole life in a small town in Iowa may have far less knowledge than a 20 year old who grew up in NYC and lived among a diverse palette of individuals. The only thing advanced age can signal is a slower metabolism and an increased risk for cardiovascular disease.
And for those individuals attaking Jun just b/c of his youth. Wow! Ageism at its best. I've met a lot of people in their 40s and 50s who could use a dose of Jun's wisdom. Age is absolutely no indication of intelligence or experience. A 40 year old who has lived his/her whole life in a small town in Iowa may have far less knowledge than a 20 year old who grew up in NYC and lived among a diverse palette of individuals. The only thing advanced age can signal is a slower metabolism and an increased risk for cardiovascular disease.
Of course I'm speaking from my own perspective! People, this is an opinion post.
Disqualifying my perspective just b/c other cultures are rooted in misogyny and female violence doesn't lessen the guilt of Asian cultures. Sure asian people don't engage in female genital mutilation or force it's women to wear burkas but it does engage in a lot of inequities big and small. I've done a lot of research in Asia (for Asian companies) to assess corporate cultures and some of the stuff I've heard is horrifying. I was once being recruited by a Korean company to work in their Seoul office. When I brought up the issue of unfair treatment of women, this was the reps response. "Oh, don't worry. They (men) won't treat you bad. They know that you're American and they can't treat you that way. " Implying that the men think it's okay to treat Korean-raised women poorly but not American-raised women.
What I think is humorous is that everything thinks somehow my childhood or my parents or negative experiences with men have something to do with my perspectives. My parents must have damaged me forever and ever. Why is being a feminist an automatic indication of poor upbringing? Why are so many people intimidated by a woman with strong opinions and a strong voice? Why do you feel the need to personally attack me rather than the ideas I have. In my experience, the use of personal attack are usually a last resort tactic when all original ideas have evaporated.
Of course I'm speaking from my own perspective! People, this is an opinion post.
Disqualifying my perspective just b/c other cultures are rooted in misogyny and female violence doesn't lessen the guilt of Asian cultures. Sure asian people don't engage in female genital mutilation or force it's women to wear burkas but it does engage in a lot of inequities big and small. I've done a lot of research in Asia (for Asian companies) to assess corporate cultures and some of the stuff I've heard is horrifying. I was once being recruited by a Korean company to work in their Seoul office. When I brought up the issue of unfair treatment of women, this was the reps response. "Oh, don't worry. They (men) won't treat you bad. They know that you're American and they can't treat you that way. " Implying that the men think it's okay to treat Korean-raised women poorly but not American-raised women.
What I think is humorous is that everything thinks somehow my childhood or my parents or negative experiences with men have something to do with my perspectives. My parents must have damaged me forever and ever. Why is being a feminist an automatic indication of poor upbringing? Why are so many people intimidated by a woman with strong opinions and a strong voice? Why do you feel the need to personally attack me rather than the ideas I have. In my experience, the use of personal attack are usually a last resort tactic when all original ideas have evaporated.
"Asian Cultures & Asian/Asian-American parents" ? Whoa. Both vague and specific. Who are you really speaking to? Your own parents? "Makes me want to turn my back on my own culture." What culture would that be? I think it's quite presumptuous to speak of a culture of being misogynist.
"Asian Cultures & Asian/Asian-American parents" ? Whoa. Both vague and specific. Who are you really speaking to? Your own parents? "Makes me want to turn my back on my own culture." What culture would that be? I think it's quite presumptuous to speak of a culture of being misogynist.
I am a little late to this thread, but wanted to add to the adoption thing. As an adoptive mother and having met many adoptive parents during and after our adoption process, I do have some theories about why most people want to adopt girls. I briefly skimmed the article that Ben posted and it also has the same theories, so I won't go into them. But one thing that seems to shock everyone is that in Taiwan, the majority of babies adopted domestically are girls. It's usually the boys that are left over and then made available for international adoption. It seems counterintuitive when you know about the Asian cultural preference for boys.
I am a little late to this thread, but wanted to add to the adoption thing. As an adoptive mother and having met many adoptive parents during and after our adoption process, I do have some theories about why most people want to adopt girls. I briefly skimmed the article that Ben posted and it also has the same theories, so I won't go into them. But one thing that seems to shock everyone is that in Taiwan, the majority of babies adopted domestically are girls. It's usually the boys that are left over and then made available for international adoption. It seems counterintuitive when you know about the Asian cultural preference for boys.
I'm puzzled. Whatever happened to "Akrypti's Law"? The one that states that the only posts on 8A that get comments are the ones about sex?
This thread is a milestone in that regard. (Admittedly, someone tried to slip interracial dating into this thread, but that didn't catch on, so it doesn't count.) Congrats, Bo!
I'm puzzled. Whatever happened to "Akrypti's Law"? The one that states that the only posts on 8A that get comments are the ones about sex?
This thread is a milestone in that regard. (Admittedly, someone tried to slip interracial dating into this thread, but that didn't catch on, so it doesn't count.) Congrats, Bo!
I get mad at "asian women hating asian men" as a general statement when said... not that you said it or believed it. And it is never enough to say "you have your experience and i have mines"... just generalizing it like takes away from all your unique endeavors as well as mine. You didnt have to say u worked in Human Resources, IT, now Finance... but u did and that gave u more credibility to your points. And the only reason im commenting back and furthering this conversation is because while theres nothing to gain from arguing with a fool, you can always learn something when u argue with intelligent people. but even with that said ill stop because in no way am i smart enough to continue this, soooo..
wat is it you said? qoute u00e2u0080u009cuRB4Nu00e2u0080u0099s Lawu00e2u0080u009d to end conversations??
=)
I get mad at "asian women hating asian men" as a general statement when said... not that you said it or believed it. And it is never enough to say "you have your experience and i have mines"... just generalizing it like takes away from all your unique endeavors as well as mine. You didnt have to say u worked in Human Resources, IT, now Finance... but u did and that gave u more credibility to your points. And the only reason im commenting back and furthering this conversation is because while theres nothing to gain from arguing with a fool, you can always learn something when u argue with intelligent people. but even with that said ill stop because in no way am i smart enough to continue this, soooo..
wat is it you said? qoute u00e2u0080u009cuRB4Nu00e2u0080u0099s Lawu00e2u0080u009d to end conversations??
=)
All I'm asking is for people to view it on the other side and also not to just take "yes" men/women's comments as gospel.
Case in point, Asian women have said "I know Asian men that don't care" and used it as a weapon to destroy other Asian men who do care?
Does that sound familiar?
"My Asian friend doesn't find the joke racist? Why do you?
All I'm asking is for people to view it on the other side and also not to just take "yes" men/women's comments as gospel.
Case in point, Asian women have said "I know Asian men that don't care" and used it as a weapon to destroy other Asian men who do care?
Does that sound familiar?
"My Asian friend doesn't find the joke racist? Why do you?
Nice. I could have just summed up your entire post into:
"You have your experiences and I have mine."
Never once did I say "Asian women hate Asian men." What I *did* say was that there is a rift between the two groups in being able to chat about their differences and concerns.
The fact that this conversation is still taking place after so long is proof of that. To be honest, you just said a whole lot of nothing. While age doesn't dictate how smart someone is, it does allow them to experience more.
Nice. I could have just summed up your entire post into:
"You have your experiences and I have mine."
Never once did I say "Asian women hate Asian men." What I *did* say was that there is a rift between the two groups in being able to chat about their differences and concerns.
The fact that this conversation is still taking place after so long is proof of that. To be honest, you just said a whole lot of nothing. While age doesn't dictate how smart someone is, it does allow them to experience more.
You have your view of Asian society as being misogynistic based on what youu00e2u0080u0099ve read and experience but you discredit other Asians for viewing Asian women as brainwashed traitors based on their experience. You canu00e2u0080u0099t have it both ways. There are reasons why Asian women are seen as traitors and Asian men as being misogynist, both traits are misleading to generalize but your attempt show validity in one argument while neglecting the existence of the other is poor judgment on your part. There as many sexist Asian men as well as many Sellout Asian girls and itu00e2u0080u0099s the mentality of Sellout Asian girls who choose to see only one side of the story and claim the insecurity of Asian men for having such views while they feel they are so liberated. Itu00e2u0080u0099s denial, pure and simple. Violence against Asian women comes in many form and the brainwashed Asian girls come in many forms, in the end they both exist and it wrong to point only one side.
You have your view of Asian society as being misogynistic based on what youu00e2u0080u0099ve read and experience but you discredit other Asians for viewing Asian women as brainwashed traitors based on their experience. You canu00e2u0080u0099t have it both ways. There are reasons why Asian women are seen as traitors and Asian men as being misogynist, both traits are misleading to generalize but your attempt show validity in one argument while neglecting the existence of the other is poor judgment on your part. There as many sexist Asian men as well as many Sellout Asian girls and itu00e2u0080u0099s the mentality of Sellout Asian girls who choose to see only one side of the story and claim the insecurity of Asian men for having such views while they feel they are so liberated. Itu00e2u0080u0099s denial, pure and simple. Violence against Asian women comes in many form and the brainwashed Asian girls come in many forms, in the end they both exist and it wrong to point only one side.
hey uRB4N,
u dropped a lot of knowledge and its appreciated. And no offense taken, because actually you are right. BUT as a 19 year old (im not even 20 yet) wat can i stand on if I dont stand on my own beliefs and experiences no matter how limited they may be? And I lived in Kentucky (because my father was stationed at Fort Knox), Florida, New York City, and Philly. And just generalizing New York City is a farce, because there are mammoth cultural differences from Manhatten to Flushing, Queens, and from South Bronx to Crown Heights, Brooklyn where I live and the clostest asians u will find are behind bullet prood plexi-glass in Chinese food places. I've worked in high end restaurants (Park Luncheonette where scenes of THE DEPARTED were flimed) and lower class diners in North Philly. I've worked architecture internships and dry cleaners. And I too am still finding out new nuances of how this world works AND much like you I did not get into this "ASIAN AMERICAN" thing recently; not until senoir year of high school. But those are in no way, excuses for me to not speak out or for you to speak out. And again sorry, but when people mention that stupid "asian women hate asian men" idiocracy its in my nature to lash out because I know its NOT true BECAUSE of my expeirence.
and as for that "uRB4N law" idea, LOL, no comment,,,,
hey uRB4N,
u dropped a lot of knowledge and its appreciated. And no offense taken, because actually you are right. BUT as a 19 year old (im not even 20 yet) wat can i stand on if I dont stand on my own beliefs and experiences no matter how limited they may be? And I lived in Kentucky (because my father was stationed at Fort Knox), Florida, New York City, and Philly. And just generalizing New York City is a farce, because there are mammoth cultural differences from Manhatten to Flushing, Queens, and from South Bronx to Crown Heights, Brooklyn where I live and the clostest asians u will find are behind bullet prood plexi-glass in Chinese food places. I've worked in high end restaurants (Park Luncheonette where scenes of THE DEPARTED were flimed) and lower class diners in North Philly. I've worked architecture internships and dry cleaners. And I too am still finding out new nuances of how this world works AND much like you I did not get into this "ASIAN AMERICAN" thing recently; not until senoir year of high school. But those are in no way, excuses for me to not speak out or for you to speak out. And again sorry, but when people mention that stupid "asian women hate asian men" idiocracy its in my nature to lash out because I know its NOT true BECAUSE of my expeirence.
and as for that "uRB4N law" idea, LOL, no comment,,,,
BTW, Jun, thanks for your perspective on the attitudes of the next generation of Asian-American youth. It's refreshing to see that there IS progress.
BTW, Jun, thanks for your perspective on the attitudes of the next generation of Asian-American youth. It's refreshing to see that there IS progress.
tas, this is not a flame war and I don't see what you plan to accomplish by demeaning me and my family. It's one thing to call me an idiot it's another thing to drag by family into this.
You're name calling is baseless, childish, and devoid of reason. You don't know how I was raised and the circumstances. I am an outspoken, proud, strong Asian woman b/c my family raised me right. I was blessed with a family, and more importantly a father who did not buy into all the misogynistic bs that a lot of the Asian culture puts on women. My family encouraged liberal discourse, empowerment, and above all respect.
I would have respect for you if you challenged my ideas instead of resorting to baseless attacts on my family and my character. The purpose of my post was to put a voice to a component of the Asian culture that in ugly and unfortunately not that infrequently voiced. You can go ahead and believe that Asian society is hunky dorey and fine but you know what, as an Asian woman I have a different perspective. My views on Asian society are partially based on my experience and partially based on what I've observed in the community. Girls are treated different - I'm not saying that every Asian is misogynistic but I AM saying that misogyny and violence against women is an unfortunate component of Asian society. And this needs to change. One of the reasons why my family immigrated to the US is b/c my parents realized that opportunities would be limited for their daughters (4 in total) if they remained in Korea. They knew that America, with its slightly more progressive views on women, would give their daughters a better chance at success...and you know what, they were right.
Have you ever heard the saying "priviledge is invisible to those who possess it." White people don't realize how priviledged they are in America and ditto for Asian men in Asian society. If female infanticide is not a demonstration of a misogynistic culture, I don't know what is. There are whole scholary papers and books examining the prevelance of domestic violence in the Asian-American community.
I respect all men who afford me the same respect. I do not, however, respect individuals who cling to old world gender roles. Like I said in my post, we live in the 21st century. No one should be able to justify why it's ok to use selective screening to pre-determine the gender of their child. (BTW, I don't want this to dissolve into some crazy pro-choice/anti-choice discussion) No woman should feel pressure to have to resort to hymen restoration to get married. No girl should be made to feel less loved and valued then her brother.
And finally, no one should have the right to accuse Asian women of brainwashing, called a traitor, or insulted b/c they have made the choice to be in a relationship with someone outside of their own race. Everytime I hear someone/anyone, be they female or male, make such assertions, I realize I'm talking to a misogynistic, bigoted person.
Violence against women can come in many forms - verbal, psychological, and physical. Belittling women simply b/c of who they love is a form of verbal violence against women that is sickening. I'm not going to stop talking about it until I get a sense that the tides have changed.
tas, this is not a flame war and I don't see what you plan to accomplish by demeaning me and my family. It's one thing to call me an idiot it's another thing to drag by family into this.
You're name calling is baseless, childish, and devoid of reason. You don't know how I was raised and the circumstances. I am an outspoken, proud, strong Asian woman b/c my family raised me right. I was blessed with a family, and more importantly a father who did not buy into all the misogynistic bs that a lot of the Asian culture puts on women. My family encouraged liberal discourse, empowerment, and above all respect.
I would have respect for you if you challenged my ideas instead of resorting to baseless attacts on my family and my character. The purpose of my post was to put a voice to a component of the Asian culture that in ugly and unfortunately not that infrequently voiced. You can go ahead and believe that Asian society is hunky dorey and fine but you know what, as an Asian woman I have a different perspective. My views on Asian society are partially based on my experience and partially based on what I've observed in the community. Girls are treated different - I'm not saying that every Asian is misogynistic but I AM saying that misogyny and violence against women is an unfortunate component of Asian society. And this needs to change. One of the reasons why my family immigrated to the US is b/c my parents realized that opportunities would be limited for their daughters (4 in total) if they remained in Korea. They knew that America, with its slightly more progressive views on women, would give their daughters a better chance at success...and you know what, they were right.
Have you ever heard the saying "priviledge is invisible to those who possess it." White people don't realize how priviledged they are in America and ditto for Asian men in Asian society. If female infanticide is not a demonstration of a misogynistic culture, I don't know what is. There are whole scholary papers and books examining the prevelance of domestic violence in the Asian-American community.
I respect all men who afford me the same respect. I do not, however, respect individuals who cling to old world gender roles. Like I said in my post, we live in the 21st century. No one should be able to justify why it's ok to use selective screening to pre-determine the gender of their child. (BTW, I don't want this to dissolve into some crazy pro-choice/anti-choice discussion) No woman should feel pressure to have to resort to hymen restoration to get married. No girl should be made to feel less loved and valued then her brother.
And finally, no one should have the right to accuse Asian women of brainwashing, called a traitor, or insulted b/c they have made the choice to be in a relationship with someone outside of their own race. Everytime I hear someone/anyone, be they female or male, make such assertions, I realize I'm talking to a misogynistic, bigoted person.
Violence against women can come in many forms - verbal, psychological, and physical. Belittling women simply b/c of who they love is a form of verbal violence against women that is sickening. I'm not going to stop talking about it until I get a sense that the tides have changed.
Just one small clarification-- you mentioned:
"there is evidence that Asian-American (meaning people in this country) are using prenatal screening technology to ensure the birth of boys.)"
However, the article on NPR indicates that this is only the case for families that already have daughters. It's the headline that is deceiving, because the headline implies exactly what you said.
Am I wrong?
-William
Just one small clarification-- you mentioned:
"there is evidence that Asian-American (meaning people in this country) are using prenatal screening technology to ensure the birth of boys.)"
However, the article on NPR indicates that this is only the case for families that already have daughters. It's the headline that is deceiving, because the headline implies exactly what you said.
Am I wrong?
-William
I have no problem with interracial relationship but do I have problem with girls like BO who justify it by stereotyping Asians. Like her quote u00e2u0080u009cThe Asian community IS patriarchal and misogynistic. It does treat women and girls as second class citizens.u00e2u0080u009d Bo shouldnu00e2u0080u0099t blame ALL Asian for how messed up her family treated her because it doesnu00e2u0080u0099t apply to all, just because Asian men in her life are such loser she should stereotype all Asians.
I have no problem with interracial relationship but do I have problem with girls like BO who justify it by stereotyping Asians. Like her quote u00e2u0080u009cThe Asian community IS patriarchal and misogynistic. It does treat women and girls as second class citizens.u00e2u0080u009d Bo shouldnu00e2u0080u0099t blame ALL Asian for how messed up her family treated her because it doesnu00e2u0080u0099t apply to all, just because Asian men in her life are such loser she should stereotype all Asians.
Jun, might I point out that you already started down that road already by bringing up the point of Asian men being bitter without even actively attacking his points.
I think Asian Americans need to start up an internet meme like Godwin's Law where the longer a conversation drags on, the chances of referencing Hitler or the Nazis approaches one. Whenever you want to kill a conversation regarding Asian America, just bring up "uRB4N's Law."
:P
Jun, might I point out that you already started down that road already by bringing up the point of Asian men being bitter without even actively attacking his points.
I think Asian Americans need to start up an internet meme like Godwin's Law where the longer a conversation drags on, the chances of referencing Hitler or the Nazis approaches one. Whenever you want to kill a conversation regarding Asian America, just bring up "uRB4N's Law."
:P
Not sure why you're even bother responding to Tas since only about 10% of what he says is correct while the other 90% is obviously wrong.
At any rate, I'll take a bit to put my thoughts together before I respond with my own viewpoints regarding Asian sexism as well as the IR rate of Asian American women.
However, I must stress that my post can be the most thought-out, rational, and logical viewpoint and it'll still be dismissed ad Ad nauseam. First, it seems that there is very little listening going on which is why this problem hasn't made any significant headway in the past few years. Second, it seems that you have no counterargument at all on this website. It seems that all the posters are friends and are just comprised of "yes" men and women who embrace the false notion of "colorblindness" and how it's a solution to everything. Third, all criticism, if any, is drowned out by condescending comments.
All I'll say is this for now. Bo (OP) seems far too concerned with herself and her demographic that she spends little or no time to observe the situation from another viewpoint. While I do acknowledge the troublesome issue of sexism in Asia and Asian America, I also want to point out that not only do men of all races treat their women as property but women also do the same. Black women do it constantly. I've known several Asian women that get extremely angry when they see a great, good looking, well-put-together, Asian man dating a non-Asian woman.
Oddly enough, an Asian women pointed out to me that Asian women who date and marry white men are inadvertently contributing to the emasculation stereotype of Asian men. That's why it's even more troublesome. I think Akrapti (sp?) even managed to entertain that idea in one of her posts which is very commendable. It's the people that think that the issue is completely harmless who are being very naive.
Whatever happens to Asian women affects Asian men. Whatever happens to Asian men affects Asian women. Now, if you want Asian men to be more receptive to listening to your issues, perhaps you should be more receptive in listening to them on their issues. Right now, no one wants to listen to each other at all.
Jun, no offense but you may be smart at 20 but you haven't even experience a small slice of how the world operates. I'm in my late 20s, worked 3 jobs in totally different fields (Human Resources, IT, now Finance), have traveled extensively, and experienced life in many parts of the world and America. Even I am still learning about how the world and society operates. Trust me, you haven't even gotten close to that yet.
Not sure why you're even bother responding to Tas since only about 10% of what he says is correct while the other 90% is obviously wrong.
At any rate, I'll take a bit to put my thoughts together before I respond with my own viewpoints regarding Asian sexism as well as the IR rate of Asian American women.
However, I must stress that my post can be the most thought-out, rational, and logical viewpoint and it'll still be dismissed ad Ad nauseam. First, it seems that there is very little listening going on which is why this problem hasn't made any significant headway in the past few years. Second, it seems that you have no counterargument at all on this website. It seems that all the posters are friends and are just comprised of "yes" men and women who embrace the false notion of "colorblindness" and how it's a solution to everything. Third, all criticism, if any, is drowned out by condescending comments.
All I'll say is this for now. Bo (OP) seems far too concerned with herself and her demographic that she spends little or no time to observe the situation from another viewpoint. While I do acknowledge the troublesome issue of sexism in Asia and Asian America, I also want to point out that not only do men of all races treat their women as property but women also do the same. Black women do it constantly. I've known several Asian women that get extremely angry when they see a great, good looking, well-put-together, Asian man dating a non-Asian woman.
Oddly enough, an Asian women pointed out to me that Asian women who date and marry white men are inadvertently contributing to the emasculation stereotype of Asian men. That's why it's even more troublesome. I think Akrapti (sp?) even managed to entertain that idea in one of her posts which is very commendable. It's the people that think that the issue is completely harmless who are being very naive.
Whatever happens to Asian women affects Asian men. Whatever happens to Asian men affects Asian women. Now, if you want Asian men to be more receptive to listening to your issues, perhaps you should be more receptive in listening to them on their issues. Right now, no one wants to listen to each other at all.
Jun, no offense but you may be smart at 20 but you haven't even experience a small slice of how the world operates. I'm in my late 20s, worked 3 jobs in totally different fields (Human Resources, IT, now Finance), have traveled extensively, and experienced life in many parts of the world and America. Even I am still learning about how the world and society operates. Trust me, you haven't even gotten close to that yet.
hey tas,
maybe its been ur experience as a Korean Male (im assuming correctly i hope) that Asian girls have looked to the "white man" as their savior. I dont know how old u are but I am 19 years old going on 20 this August. I also have hundreds of asian friends who are in their undergrad years going to school throughout the east coast in Boston, NYC, Philly, Connecticut, Maryland, Virgina, Florida and Georgia. And all you have is my word but in all honesty I can truly say that the idea of "asian girls looking up to white men as their savior" philosophy does not exist AT ALL. In my generation "asian pride" has grown so much that asians who date outside their race are unjustly looked down upon.
Asian males need to stop it with this "white man stealing our women" bullshit... its pathetic...
hey tas,
maybe its been ur experience as a Korean Male (im assuming correctly i hope) that Asian girls have looked to the "white man" as their savior. I dont know how old u are but I am 19 years old going on 20 this August. I also have hundreds of asian friends who are in their undergrad years going to school throughout the east coast in Boston, NYC, Philly, Connecticut, Maryland, Virgina, Florida and Georgia. And all you have is my word but in all honesty I can truly say that the idea of "asian girls looking up to white men as their savior" philosophy does not exist AT ALL. In my generation "asian pride" has grown so much that asians who date outside their race are unjustly looked down upon.
Asian males need to stop it with this "white man stealing our women" bullshit... its pathetic...
Sounds like another u00e2u0080u009cI canu00e2u0080u0099t be a racist because I have black friendsu00e2u0080u009d rant. I hope youu00e2u0080u0099re smart enough to know the actual meaning behind the quote and apply it to your situation. You obviously had a prejudicial perception on how the Asian community is and sympathize with AA women while showing no sympathy for what AA men go through and have no remorse in pigeonholing AA men into stereotypes while praising AA women. The same mentality you have is the reason why Asian girls view white men as their savior and judge white men to be more u00e2u0080u009cliberalu00e2u0080u009d then Asian men even before getting to know them.
Sounds like another u00e2u0080u009cI canu00e2u0080u0099t be a racist because I have black friendsu00e2u0080u009d rant. I hope youu00e2u0080u0099re smart enough to know the actual meaning behind the quote and apply it to your situation. You obviously had a prejudicial perception on how the Asian community is and sympathize with AA women while showing no sympathy for what AA men go through and have no remorse in pigeonholing AA men into stereotypes while praising AA women. The same mentality you have is the reason why Asian girls view white men as their savior and judge white men to be more u00e2u0080u009cliberalu00e2u0080u009d then Asian men even before getting to know them.
Yeah, that's it. I just hate myself. And I hate men and I'm a complete racist. That's why I work as a corporate diversity officer and spend every working day trying to create positive cultural change in corporate America so that women, minorities, people with disabilities, LGBT, and other marginalized communities have a better chance of exceling and achieving success in whatever career they pursue. Yeah, I do this work b/c I HATE myself. And yeah, I hate myself that's why I train for endurance races and teach yoga and am in a loving, committed relationship with a man that respects me and treats me with dignity. Yeah, and only a person that really feels guilty would serve on a non-profit board in a Brooklyn based children's art organization. Yeah, all of these demonstrate the behaviors of a person that's seething with self-hate and guilt. Now, I'm not listing all of my credentials to boost but instead to outline that I'm a very self-actualized and contented person. You may think I'm a seething pool of self-hate but trust me, I'm not. The furthest thing from it. I would gain nothing by baselessly calling out individuals. BUT I'm not going to be intimidated by a little name calling and stop expressing my opinions about what I believe are serious social injustices in the Asian and Asian-American community.
The Asian community IS partriarchial and mysoginistic. It does treat women and girls as second class citizens. It's not something that should or can be ignored. And yeah, I'm going to continue to call out the Asian community until I feel like progress has been made. Trust me, I'm just as critical with White-America as I am with Asian-America. Critical thinking and discourse is NOT an indication of self-loathing. It is the foundation for change and progress. Condemning and name calling people is not a productive means to promote change. Discourse is. I wasn't name calling in my post. I was simply voicing a lot of the pain Asian-American women deal with on a consistent basis. Asian women want to be proud of our community, but when we hear about selective selection sometimes it's hard to defend it.
tas, you can continue to try to intimidate through name calling but it ain't gonna work.
Yeah, that's it. I just hate myself. And I hate men and I'm a complete racist. That's why I work as a corporate diversity officer and spend every working day trying to create positive cultural change in corporate America so that women, minorities, people with disabilities, LGBT, and other marginalized communities have a better chance of exceling and achieving success in whatever career they pursue. Yeah, I do this work b/c I HATE myself. And yeah, I hate myself that's why I train for endurance races and teach yoga and am in a loving, committed relationship with a man that respects me and treats me with dignity. Yeah, and only a person that really feels guilty would serve on a non-profit board in a Brooklyn based children's art organization. Yeah, all of these demonstrate the behaviors of a person that's seething with self-hate and guilt. Now, I'm not listing all of my credentials to boost but instead to outline that I'm a very self-actualized and contented person. You may think I'm a seething pool of self-hate but trust me, I'm not. The furthest thing from it. I would gain nothing by baselessly calling out individuals. BUT I'm not going to be intimidated by a little name calling and stop expressing my opinions about what I believe are serious social injustices in the Asian and Asian-American community.
The Asian community IS partriarchial and mysoginistic. It does treat women and girls as second class citizens. It's not something that should or can be ignored. And yeah, I'm going to continue to call out the Asian community until I feel like progress has been made. Trust me, I'm just as critical with White-America as I am with Asian-America. Critical thinking and discourse is NOT an indication of self-loathing. It is the foundation for change and progress. Condemning and name calling people is not a productive means to promote change. Discourse is. I wasn't name calling in my post. I was simply voicing a lot of the pain Asian-American women deal with on a consistent basis. Asian women want to be proud of our community, but when we hear about selective selection sometimes it's hard to defend it.
tas, you can continue to try to intimidate through name calling but it ain't gonna work.
Ernie u00e2u0080u0093 NO, donu00e2u0080u0099t be retarded!
Jozjozjoz u00e2u0080u0093 In my personal experience, I find AA men take better care of their parents while AA women just claim to take better care of their parent. My Fiancu00c3u00a9 is white and she is taking courses in Korean (not actual courses but Rosetta stone CDs) and learning to cook Korean with my mom. Iu00e2u0080u0099ve never met an AA women who is married to an non AA men that actually lives with their parents and take care of them while the opposite case is more prevalent.
Xxxtine u00e2u0080u0093 you can come up with millions of personal reason why my statement is wrong but itu00e2u0080u0099s only based on your limited interaction and not based on the actual consensus. Just like how you find my statement puzzling, I find your statements absurd.
Jun u00e2u0080u0093 If you think Asian men have it easier in THIS country then Asian women you are sorely mistaken. Asian women are afforded more opportunities then Asian men; they are more accepted in American cultural. Asian women are so accepted in America, Race doesnu00e2u0080u0099t play a role while when it comes to Asian men, RACE ALWAYS play a role.
BO u00e2u0080u0093 Again you only list thing based on your limited experience. Your blinded prejudice and reverse sexism is apparent. You seem to have a lot of self hate and guilt which you manifest into these sexist / prejudice posts (solely based on your limited knowledge).
Ernie u00e2u0080u0093 NO, donu00e2u0080u0099t be retarded!
Jozjozjoz u00e2u0080u0093 In my personal experience, I find AA men take better care of their parents while AA women just claim to take better care of their parent. My Fiancu00c3u00a9 is white and she is taking courses in Korean (not actual courses but Rosetta stone CDs) and learning to cook Korean with my mom. Iu00e2u0080u0099ve never met an AA women who is married to an non AA men that actually lives with their parents and take care of them while the opposite case is more prevalent.
Xxxtine u00e2u0080u0093 you can come up with millions of personal reason why my statement is wrong but itu00e2u0080u0099s only based on your limited interaction and not based on the actual consensus. Just like how you find my statement puzzling, I find your statements absurd.
Jun u00e2u0080u0093 If you think Asian men have it easier in THIS country then Asian women you are sorely mistaken. Asian women are afforded more opportunities then Asian men; they are more accepted in American cultural. Asian women are so accepted in America, Race doesnu00e2u0080u0099t play a role while when it comes to Asian men, RACE ALWAYS play a role.
BO u00e2u0080u0093 Again you only list thing based on your limited experience. Your blinded prejudice and reverse sexism is apparent. You seem to have a lot of self hate and guilt which you manifest into these sexist / prejudice posts (solely based on your limited knowledge).
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