Excited
The Olympics are around the corner, with the opening ceremonies start on August 8th, at 8 PM (i.e. 8/8/08 – 8 PM – 8 is lucky, as in 8Asians). I was wondering when I was going to read an article on Taiwan’s involvement in the 2008 Beijing Olympics. In Sunday’s New York Times, the newspaper details some of the concerns by the Taiwanese delegation in “A Side Competition in Beijing: Island vs. Mainland“:
“Taiwanese athletes insist that the Olympics are about sports, not politics. Besides, relations between mainland China and Taiwan have been on the upswing after Ma Ying-Jeou, the conciliatory Taiwanese president, was inaugurated in May…At the heart of the anxiety is a political disagreement over the Chinese words for the name of the Olympic delegation from Taiwan, known in English as Chinese Taipei. The Chinese word for the first part of the name is officially Zhonghua. That comes from Zhonghua Minguo, or Republic of China (中華民國), the name that the historically dominant political group here, the Kuomintang, prefers for Taiwan. Mainland China signed an agreement with Taiwan in 1989 recognizing Zhonghua Taipei (中華臺北) — Chinese Taipei — as the name for Taiwan’s delegation. Years earlier, Taiwan had promised the International Olympic Committee that it would make a gesture to the mainland by changing its delegation’s original name and not using the official Taiwanese flag or the national anthem in the Olympics. But sports officials on the mainland often call the Taiwanese delegation Zhongguo Taipei (中国台北). Zhongguo (中国), which means Middle Kingdom, is the Chinese name for China. Referring to the Taiwanese delegation as Zhongguo Taipei implies that the athletes and the island they represent are part of China. Sports announcers in China often use the name Zhongguo Taipei when talking about Taiwanese athletes, and signs at sports events on the mainland display that name.”
The irony is that the English name of Taiwan, or Chinese Taipei, however confusing the name may be, is at least different and recognized as a country different and separate from the People’s Republic of China. But in Chinese, China can publicly manipulate to the world that Taiwan is a part of China by representing Taiwan’s Chinese name that favors its political agenda, despite it being counter to what it has agreed upon in the past (and the non-Chinese speaking/reading world doesn’t know the difference). There is no “lost in translation” here – but a deliberate, constant effort by China to continually portray Taiwan as a rogue nation that has always been a part of mainland China. It bothers me to no end that Taiwan has to use the name “Chinese Taipei” in the Olympics, as well as use a separate flag to represent itself. Are there any other countries in the world that have to do that as well???
Considering China does consider Taiwan a rogue, separatist state, it is remarkable that China is having Taiwan represented in the Beijing Olympics – but no doubt a condition of hosting the Games. Hopefully, China and its citizens will be respect Taiwan’s participation in the Olympics. For me, I’ll be rooting for the United States and Taiwan.
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> However, has anyone ever stopped to think that this might be because of pressure from China?
That didn't stop Taiwan from electing Chen Shui-bian back in 2000, who, despite the sugar-coating in official documents, is supportive of all-out independence.
And his exit approval ratings were hovering around 20%... apparantly people were extremely upset that the economy was tanking due to the loss of business with China (and the corruption scandals didn't help either)
Taiwan learned from that mistake and overwhelmingly elected KMT candidate Ma Ying-jeou to power in 2008, who phrases his wording to lean to that of status quo: "for our party, the eventual goal is reunification, but we don't have a timetable"
If the majority of Taiwan was ever pro-Independence (which I don't think it was), Chen's tenure surely changed that... I think it'll be a long time before another DPP gets elected as President again.
> However, has anyone ever stopped to think that this might be because of pressure from China?
That didn't stop Taiwan from electing Chen Shui-bian back in 2000, who, despite the sugar-coating in official documents, is supportive of all-out independence.
And his exit approval ratings were hovering around 20%... apparantly people were extremely upset that the economy was tanking due to the loss of business with China (and the corruption scandals didn't help either)
Taiwan learned from that mistake and overwhelmingly elected KMT candidate Ma Ying-jeou to power in 2008, who phrases his wording to lean to that of status quo: "for our party, the eventual goal is reunification, but we don't have a timetable"
If the majority of Taiwan was ever pro-Independence (which I don't think it was), Chen's tenure surely changed that... I think it'll be a long time before another DPP gets elected as President again.
I'm not disputing the fact that the UN, the WHO and other large international organizations don't recognize the independence of Taiwan, or the fact that the majority of Taiwanese citizens support the status quo. However, has anyone ever stopped to think that this might be because of pressure from China? If there were hundreds of missiles across a 100-mile strait aimed at your island, and a large belligerent power had made it clear that they were going to attack you if you ever declared independence, and the fact that China refuses to give diplomatic recognition to any country that also recognizes you as well and China's economic clout is only growing, I think you might also support the status quo as well.
That's probably why most people don't want to declare independence.
I'm not disputing the fact that the UN, the WHO and other large international organizations don't recognize the independence of Taiwan, or the fact that the majority of Taiwanese citizens support the status quo. However, has anyone ever stopped to think that this might be because of pressure from China? If there were hundreds of missiles across a 100-mile strait aimed at your island, and a large belligerent power had made it clear that they were going to attack you if you ever declared independence, and the fact that China refuses to give diplomatic recognition to any country that also recognizes you as well and China's economic clout is only growing, I think you might also support the status quo as well.
That's probably why most people don't want to declare independence.
im not saying taiwan should or shouldn't declare independence but just that it should be given the opportunity without having to consider factors such as ready to be used missiles aimed solely at it if it does so
im not saying taiwan should or shouldn't declare independence but just that it should be given the opportunity without having to consider factors such as ready to be used missiles aimed solely at it if it does so
The reason that Taiwan isn't declaring independence is because it doesn't WANT to declare independence. It's generally claimed that only 10% of the population want to formally split from China.... these would be considered the ultra-left DPP. By the same token, 10% want to "re-unite" with China... these would be the ultra-right KMT. However, 80% of the population just want to retain the status-quo.
I have no statistics to back up these claims (it's been told to me first-hand from numerous Taiwanese citizens), but the overwhelming victory of Ma in the recent presidential election shows that the desire for independence is not as popular as outspoken Taiwanese-Americans make it out to be.
Also, don't forget that it's not just the PRC that doesn't recognize Taiwan as a separate entity. The UN, WHO, and obviously the IOC are among the world organizations that don't recognize Taiwan as separate from China.
Even the United States, once the most powerful backer of Taiwan, is becoming ambiguous about the amount of support it would provide to Taiwan if it declares independence, if any.
The reason that Taiwan isn't declaring independence is because it doesn't WANT to declare independence. It's generally claimed that only 10% of the population want to formally split from China.... these would be considered the ultra-left DPP. By the same token, 10% want to "re-unite" with China... these would be the ultra-right KMT. However, 80% of the population just want to retain the status-quo.
I have no statistics to back up these claims (it's been told to me first-hand from numerous Taiwanese citizens), but the overwhelming victory of Ma in the recent presidential election shows that the desire for independence is not as popular as outspoken Taiwanese-Americans make it out to be.
Also, don't forget that it's not just the PRC that doesn't recognize Taiwan as a separate entity. The UN, WHO, and obviously the IOC are among the world organizations that don't recognize Taiwan as separate from China.
Even the United States, once the most powerful backer of Taiwan, is becoming ambiguous about the amount of support it would provide to Taiwan if it declares independence, if any.
Oh and Hong Kong competes separately from the PRC.
Both examples I gave above are sort of the opposite - Palestine and Israel don't want to be associated with each other, despite being within the same borders. HK is now officially part of China but it still gets to compete separately. Taiwan, on the other hand, is not part of China, but China uses a possessive word in Taiwan's name in international competitions, so it sounds like Taiwan is part of China.
Oh and Hong Kong competes separately from the PRC.
Both examples I gave above are sort of the opposite - Palestine and Israel don't want to be associated with each other, despite being within the same borders. HK is now officially part of China but it still gets to compete separately. Taiwan, on the other hand, is not part of China, but China uses a possessive word in Taiwan's name in international competitions, so it sounds like Taiwan is part of China.
"Are there any other countries in the world that have to do that as well???"
Not really analogous, but Palestine competes separately from Israel.
"Are there any other countries in the world that have to do that as well???"
Not really analogous, but Palestine competes separately from Israel.
i don't understand why china won't allow taiwan to declare indepenence - if it wishes to do so that is. the people of taiwan should be allowed to make that decision for themselves without fear of war and whatnot, it is after all them who will live with the decision foremost. although relations are warming between the two i can't help but to think it is but forced - with china ready to declare war on taiwan if it declares independence, and china's economy forming its ties and obligated allies if it were to do so.
TAIWAN FOR INDEPENDENCE!!!!!!!
i don't understand why china won't allow taiwan to declare indepenence - if it wishes to do so that is. the people of taiwan should be allowed to make that decision for themselves without fear of war and whatnot, it is after all them who will live with the decision foremost. although relations are warming between the two i can't help but to think it is but forced - with china ready to declare war on taiwan if it declares independence, and china's economy forming its ties and obligated allies if it were to do so.
TAIWAN FOR INDEPENDENCE!!!!!!!
i am with you . "Chinese Taipei" blows the big one and the KMT are a bunch of Uncle Toms. China has successfully used the Olympics to further erase Taiwan from existence and the people of Taiwan sat idly by and let it happen. Taiwanese people (and i do mean the real people of Taiwan) need to man up or else we will be usurped by the communists in no time.
i am with you . "Chinese Taipei" blows the big one and the KMT are a bunch of Uncle Toms. China has successfully used the Olympics to further erase Taiwan from existence and the people of Taiwan sat idly by and let it happen. Taiwanese people (and i do mean the real people of Taiwan) need to man up or else we will be usurped by the communists in no time.
The Chinese position is not that Taiwan doesn't exist, nor even that Taiwan doesn't have the right to govern itself (recall: one country, two systems) -- it's that Taiwan can't be independent. The flag can't be the ROC flag since that would imply sovereignty. However, the flag is also not a generic five-rings flag -- it's got the same 18-pointed white-sun-on-blue-background that's on the ROC flag.
Similarly, the song played isn't the Olympic anthem -- it's the National Banner Song. Given that this song is customarily played for ROC flag-raisings anyway, it's not at all clear that this was any type of concession. The analogy would be if Britain promised not to play Rule Britannia -- big deal, they would've played God Save the Queen wanyway.
The Chinese position is not that Taiwan doesn't exist, nor even that Taiwan doesn't have the right to govern itself (recall: one country, two systems) -- it's that Taiwan can't be independent. The flag can't be the ROC flag since that would imply sovereignty. However, the flag is also not a generic five-rings flag -- it's got the same 18-pointed white-sun-on-blue-background that's on the ROC flag.
Similarly, the song played isn't the Olympic anthem -- it's the National Banner Song. Given that this song is customarily played for ROC flag-raisings anyway, it's not at all clear that this was any type of concession. The analogy would be if Britain promised not to play Rule Britannia -- big deal, they would've played God Save the Queen wanyway.
I was pretty much clueless to the China vs. Taiwan politics until I got a Taiwanese boyfriend & started to notice everything about Taiwan on the news. I didn't realize that Taiwan had a separate flag & had to follow all these unfair conditions. =_=; Now I understand why my boyfriend hates China...^_^;; The use of u00e4u00b8u00adu00e5u009bu00bdu00e5u008fu00b0u00e5u008cu0097 in China is really unfair since a large number of the world can tell the two Chinese names apart (although I myself am not really clear on the difference btwn u00e4u00b8u00adu00e5u009bu00bdu00e3u0080u0080u00efu00bcu0086u00e3u0080u0080u00e4u00b8u00adu00e8u008fu00af
I was pretty much clueless to the China vs. Taiwan politics until I got a Taiwanese boyfriend & started to notice everything about Taiwan on the news. I didn't realize that Taiwan had a separate flag & had to follow all these unfair conditions. =_=; Now I understand why my boyfriend hates China...^_^;; The use of u00e4u00b8u00adu00e5u009bu00bdu00e5u008fu00b0u00e5u008cu0097 in China is really unfair since a large number of the world can tell the two Chinese names apart (although I myself am not really clear on the difference btwn u00e4u00b8u00adu00e5u009bu00bdu00e3u0080u0080u00efu00bcu0086u00e3u0080u0080u00e4u00b8u00adu00e8u008fu00af
Dude, John - I have SOOO much to comment on China's portrayal of the 2008 Olympics here on the Chinese media....
I don't know what Jeremy's comment is supposed to mean
Jeremy H - you are assuming that most Chinese-Americans who read this care...
There goes half the readership of Chinese-Americans on 8Asians.
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[...] the U.S. is not represented in the medal rankings, Taiwan (competing as Chinese Taipei) is currently ranked #2 behind Russia with four gold medals. (See current medal [...]