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	<title>Comments on: No on 8: How NOT to Run an Initiative Campaign</title>
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	<link>http://www.8asians.com/2008/11/12/no-on-8/</link>
	<description>A blog for Asian Americans</description>
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		<title>By: Toro</title>
		<link>http://www.8asians.com/2008/11/12/no-on-8/comment-page-1/#comment-103672</link>
		<dc:creator>Toro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.8asians.com/?p=2284#comment-103672</guid>
		<description>Efren, I&#039;m not really sure what you&#039;re asking re: the first part of your comments. Could you restate your question for me please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Efren, I&#8217;m not really sure what you&#8217;re asking re: the first part of your comments. Could you restate your question for me please.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Toro</title>
		<link>http://www.8asians.com/2008/11/12/no-on-8/comment-page-1/#comment-139448</link>
		<dc:creator>Toro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 18:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.8asians.com/?p=2284#comment-139448</guid>
		<description>Efren, I&#039;m not really sure what you&#039;re asking re: the first part of your comments. Could you restate your question for me please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Efren, I&#8217;m not really sure what you&#8217;re asking re: the first part of your comments. Could you restate your question for me please.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Efren</title>
		<link>http://www.8asians.com/2008/11/12/no-on-8/comment-page-1/#comment-103603</link>
		<dc:creator>Efren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 06:23:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.8asians.com/?p=2284#comment-103603</guid>
		<description>Toro: Clearly, I don&#039;t need this, but I think it would be good to see how it isn&#039;t.  Civil union--as it&#039;s described now--clearly isn&#039;t marriage, but at the same time, maybe what needs to happen is that they be made separate--marriage simply being sanctioned by one&#039;s religionwith no governmental benefits; civil unions representing the social and governmental contract that happens when two people decide to enter a union. 

I am very curious why you didn&#039;t respond to the rest of my reply--are you in agreement?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Toro: Clearly, I don&#8217;t need this, but I think it would be good to see how it isn&#8217;t.  Civil union&#8211;as it&#8217;s described now&#8211;clearly isn&#8217;t marriage, but at the same time, maybe what needs to happen is that they be made separate&#8211;marriage simply being sanctioned by one&#8217;s religionwith no governmental benefits; civil unions representing the social and governmental contract that happens when two people decide to enter a union. </p>
<p>I am very curious why you didn&#8217;t respond to the rest of my reply&#8211;are you in agreement?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Efren</title>
		<link>http://www.8asians.com/2008/11/12/no-on-8/comment-page-1/#comment-139447</link>
		<dc:creator>Efren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 06:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.8asians.com/?p=2284#comment-139447</guid>
		<description>Toro: Clearly, I don&#039;t need this, but I think it would be good to see how it isn&#039;t.  Civil union--as it&#039;s described now--clearly isn&#039;t marriage, but at the same time, maybe what needs to happen is that they be made separate--marriage simply being sanctioned by one&#039;s religionwith no governmental benefits; civil unions representing the social and governmental contract that happens when two people decide to enter a union. 

I am very curious why you didn&#039;t respond to the rest of my reply--are you in agreement?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Toro: Clearly, I don&#8217;t need this, but I think it would be good to see how it isn&#8217;t.  Civil union&#8211;as it&#8217;s described now&#8211;clearly isn&#8217;t marriage, but at the same time, maybe what needs to happen is that they be made separate&#8211;marriage simply being sanctioned by one&#8217;s religionwith no governmental benefits; civil unions representing the social and governmental contract that happens when two people decide to enter a union. </p>
<p>I am very curious why you didn&#8217;t respond to the rest of my reply&#8211;are you in agreement?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Toro</title>
		<link>http://www.8asians.com/2008/11/12/no-on-8/comment-page-1/#comment-103599</link>
		<dc:creator>Toro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 05:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.8asians.com/?p=2284#comment-103599</guid>
		<description>Efren: Civil unions versus marriage is not a debate of semantics. I&#039;m sure you are smart enough for me not to cite all the reasons here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Efren: Civil unions versus marriage is not a debate of semantics. I&#8217;m sure you are smart enough for me not to cite all the reasons here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Toro</title>
		<link>http://www.8asians.com/2008/11/12/no-on-8/comment-page-1/#comment-139446</link>
		<dc:creator>Toro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 05:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.8asians.com/?p=2284#comment-139446</guid>
		<description>Efren: Civil unions versus marriage is not a debate of semantics. I&#039;m sure you are smart enough for me not to cite all the reasons here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Efren: Civil unions versus marriage is not a debate of semantics. I&#8217;m sure you are smart enough for me not to cite all the reasons here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Efren</title>
		<link>http://www.8asians.com/2008/11/12/no-on-8/comment-page-1/#comment-103516</link>
		<dc:creator>Efren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 08:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.8asians.com/?p=2284#comment-103516</guid>
		<description>Toro:  I see your points--but my question to you is--so what? 

The issue of same-sex marriage was forced upon us by the far right--but then again, it seems that people who are fighting for same-sex marriage appear to be used to having the far right drive the debate, when it should be us who&#039;s forcing the issues that need to be raised.  That&#039;s been a major problem--with a lack of clear leadership, those who are organized will speak for us.  Personally, I&#039;m sick of people who are for queer rights who just react--instead of act.  

So recognizing that, what does that mean?  It&#039;s not like we can just pull ourselves out of this issue.  It has to be fought to its logical conclusion--whatever that means. 

Personally, I find it disconcerting that in the drive for same-sex marriage in California that other more basic rights are not protected for queers.  Same-sex marriage is all well and good, but if I can still be fired from my job for having a same-sex partner or looking like the &quot;wrong&quot; gender; if my kids can be harrassed by fellow students and administrators without any sort of state protection because they&#039;re perceived to be queer; if my elders have to hide their orientation or gender presentation in an elder care home for fear of discrimination, then what&#039;s the point? 

Personally, I feel that a government-sanctioned couple should be completely independent of marriage.  It honestly feels for me that for many conservatives, the issue is one of semantics--while many of them were howling about the use of &quot;gay marriage&quot;, they were also quietly pushing for the strongest civil union partnerships in the US before same-sex marriage happened in Massachusetts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Toro:  I see your points&#8211;but my question to you is&#8211;so what? </p>
<p>The issue of same-sex marriage was forced upon us by the far right&#8211;but then again, it seems that people who are fighting for same-sex marriage appear to be used to having the far right drive the debate, when it should be us who&#8217;s forcing the issues that need to be raised.  That&#8217;s been a major problem&#8211;with a lack of clear leadership, those who are organized will speak for us.  Personally, I&#8217;m sick of people who are for queer rights who just react&#8211;instead of act.  </p>
<p>So recognizing that, what does that mean?  It&#8217;s not like we can just pull ourselves out of this issue.  It has to be fought to its logical conclusion&#8211;whatever that means. </p>
<p>Personally, I find it disconcerting that in the drive for same-sex marriage in California that other more basic rights are not protected for queers.  Same-sex marriage is all well and good, but if I can still be fired from my job for having a same-sex partner or looking like the &#8220;wrong&#8221; gender; if my kids can be harrassed by fellow students and administrators without any sort of state protection because they&#8217;re perceived to be queer; if my elders have to hide their orientation or gender presentation in an elder care home for fear of discrimination, then what&#8217;s the point? </p>
<p>Personally, I feel that a government-sanctioned couple should be completely independent of marriage.  It honestly feels for me that for many conservatives, the issue is one of semantics&#8211;while many of them were howling about the use of &#8220;gay marriage&#8221;, they were also quietly pushing for the strongest civil union partnerships in the US before same-sex marriage happened in Massachusetts.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Efren</title>
		<link>http://www.8asians.com/2008/11/12/no-on-8/comment-page-1/#comment-139445</link>
		<dc:creator>Efren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 08:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.8asians.com/?p=2284#comment-139445</guid>
		<description>Toro:  I see your points--but my question to you is--so what? 

The issue of same-sex marriage was forced upon us by the far right--but then again, it seems that people who are fighting for same-sex marriage appear to be used to having the far right drive the debate, when it should be us who&#039;s forcing the issues that need to be raised.  That&#039;s been a major problem--with a lack of clear leadership, those who are organized will speak for us.  Personally, I&#039;m sick of people who are for queer rights who just react--instead of act.  

So recognizing that, what does that mean?  It&#039;s not like we can just pull ourselves out of this issue.  It has to be fought to its logical conclusion--whatever that means. 

Personally, I find it disconcerting that in the drive for same-sex marriage in California that other more basic rights are not protected for queers.  Same-sex marriage is all well and good, but if I can still be fired from my job for having a same-sex partner or looking like the &quot;wrong&quot; gender; if my kids can be harrassed by fellow students and administrators without any sort of state protection because they&#039;re perceived to be queer; if my elders have to hide their orientation or gender presentation in an elder care home for fear of discrimination, then what&#039;s the point? 

Personally, I feel that a government-sanctioned couple should be completely independent of marriage.  It honestly feels for me that for many conservatives, the issue is one of semantics--while many of them were howling about the use of &quot;gay marriage&quot;, they were also quietly pushing for the strongest civil union partnerships in the US before same-sex marriage happened in Massachusetts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Toro:  I see your points&#8211;but my question to you is&#8211;so what? </p>
<p>The issue of same-sex marriage was forced upon us by the far right&#8211;but then again, it seems that people who are fighting for same-sex marriage appear to be used to having the far right drive the debate, when it should be us who&#8217;s forcing the issues that need to be raised.  That&#8217;s been a major problem&#8211;with a lack of clear leadership, those who are organized will speak for us.  Personally, I&#8217;m sick of people who are for queer rights who just react&#8211;instead of act.  </p>
<p>So recognizing that, what does that mean?  It&#8217;s not like we can just pull ourselves out of this issue.  It has to be fought to its logical conclusion&#8211;whatever that means. </p>
<p>Personally, I find it disconcerting that in the drive for same-sex marriage in California that other more basic rights are not protected for queers.  Same-sex marriage is all well and good, but if I can still be fired from my job for having a same-sex partner or looking like the &#8220;wrong&#8221; gender; if my kids can be harrassed by fellow students and administrators without any sort of state protection because they&#8217;re perceived to be queer; if my elders have to hide their orientation or gender presentation in an elder care home for fear of discrimination, then what&#8217;s the point? </p>
<p>Personally, I feel that a government-sanctioned couple should be completely independent of marriage.  It honestly feels for me that for many conservatives, the issue is one of semantics&#8211;while many of them were howling about the use of &#8220;gay marriage&#8221;, they were also quietly pushing for the strongest civil union partnerships in the US before same-sex marriage happened in Massachusetts.</p>
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