Excited
The recent discussion about Dartmouth’s new president, Jim Yong Kim, sparked quite a bit of discussion on the 8asians internal mailing list, and brought back memories of my college days at the University of Pennsylvania (Penn). After reading that Penn had a 23.3% Asian population compared with other schools in the Ivy League, I commented to the internal list:
Yay to Penn for having the highest percentage! This is a huge improvement over when I attended Penn when Asians made up only 10 to 11 percent in 1985 (which was up from 5 percent in 1980)
In 1985, there were much fewer shades of gray in the world, and if you were Chinese and on Penn’s campus, you were one of the two types of Asian on campus. Forgive me for using these terms, but you were either a “banana” or you were part of the Chinese clique. I didn’t self-identify either way, but I was lumped into the “banana” category, since I didn’t hang out in the Chinese clique.
My 4 closest friends in college comprised of a Latina woman, a Jewish woman, a Caucasian ROTC cadet, and a Catholic Italian man. There was no lack of diversity in my crowd. But I didn’t have a close Asian friend in college. With 11% to choose from, you’d think that would have been easy, but I was the only Asian on my dorm floor, and my closest friends came from those that lived around me.
As my social life in college progressed, the lack of “Asians” in my life began to bother me more. Here I was, an immigrant to the U.S. who spoke Chinese and English, and yet, I had no Asian friends in college. In junior year, I joined the CSA (the Chinese Student Association) at Penn. While joining wasn’t a problem, and neither was introducing myself to others in the group; what really bothered me was that everyone in the CSA hung out only with other members of the CSA. I’d see them on campus and they’d be walking around in groups together. There was no diversity in their group. No token Caucasian or African-American.
I’d wave hi at someone I knew in CSA while I was on campus with my friends, and they would avert their eyes. I began to wonder, where was the middle ground? Could you be Asian and have both Asian and non-Asian friends? In the end, I gave up on the CSA, and stuck with my close set of friends. Today, my friends from college remain my closest friends, and I’ve been able to augment my set of friends with both Asians and non-Asians, and continue to have a diverse group of friends.
After reflecting back on my college days, I have to ask if my experience was unique and if Asians still segregate themselves into two types on college campuses? If you went to college, were you able to balance a line between those two stereotypes or did you fall into one of those buckets?
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Boogerhead
I think of bananas as people who are hostile to fellow Asians not that they socialize more with white people. I wonder how many of the people I consider to be Asian-hating Asians i.e. bananas actually fit the psychological profiles of narcissistic sociopaths.
Boogerhead
Chinese cliques in undergrad never giggled at my jokes or spontaneously smiled at me or sought me out in any way. They were basically stone faced even when in groups. Maybe they were laffing it up in private homes. Most people just wanted to hold officer positions in Asian clubs for their resume. I wouldn't think that someone who was Chinese hanging out with nonChinese was necessarily a banana but I do think that some Asians who are only seen with nonAsians especially/only white friends give the stinkeye to other Asians.
I think as a queer Filipino Am male at the most conservative UC (UC Riverside) at the time, I realized that I would get shit from all sides--my insistence on identifying as queer irritated a lot of the people of color, especially Filipin@s on campus; and my insistence on being proud of my Fil Am heritage led many queer white folk to assume that I was separatist and didn't want to be associated with them. I could count all the queer Filipin@s I knew at UCR at the time and have fingers left over, and many of them had fucked up politics so I didn't want to bother dealing with them. I had to make friends across identities in order to survive; the funny part is that I became known for being able to make alliances with people who I would sometimes be opposed with politically simply because I had no choice but who agreed with my causes, and these were people who I had commonalities with that went beyond mere superficial identities. Most of my close friends ended up being conservative white and Asian people, and we laid a ground rule that we would never talk about politics or religion since we knew that we would never get anywhere and that exercise in futility would ruin our friendships. Most of my liberal friends ended up falling by the wayside because there was very little commonality beyond the perception of agreeing politically.
I think as a queer Filipino Am male at the most conservative UC (UC Riverside) at the time, I realized that I would get shit from all sides--my insistence on identifying as queer irritated a lot of the people of color, especially Filipin@s on campus; and my insistence on being proud of my Fil Am heritage led many queer white folk to assume that I was separatist and didn't want to be associated with them. I could count all the queer Filipin@s I knew at UCR at the time and have fingers left over, and many of them had fucked up politics so I didn't want to bother dealing with them. I had to make friends across identities in order to survive; the funny part is that I became known for being able to make alliances with people who I would sometimes be opposed with politically simply because I had no choice but who agreed with my causes, and these were people who I had commonalities with that went beyond mere superficial identities. Most of my close friends ended up being conservative white and Asian people, and we laid a ground rule that we would never talk about politics or religion since we knew that we would never get anywhere and that exercise in futility would ruin our friendships. Most of my liberal friends ended up falling by the wayside because there was very little commonality beyond the perception of agreeing politically.
In my high school, the majority of the population was white with a small percentage of minorities. I hung out with two different groups, Asians and Caucasians. The reason for this is because my Asian friends understood me when it came to my cultural background, such as parent expectation and basically growing up Asian. My white friends were people I knew and befriended in the AP classes.
These were conflicting times. My Asian friends called me Banana or Twinkie because I acted too "white" - to this day I still don't understand how to act "Asian." Whereas I was sometimes placed in the Miley Cyrus situation with my white friends, meaning, they made racist jokes and I uncomfortably laughed or was deemed too sensitive when I was offended. I know better now than to take that sort of behavior.
I went to college far from my hometown so one of the first things I did was join a club, Asian Pacific Student Alliance. This way, I can be active on campus and make new friends who have a similar background as me. I'm still friends with a lot of the Asians in the club. To my relief, I wasn't called Twinkie or banana.
In my high school, the majority of the population was white with a small percentage of minorities. I hung out with two different groups, Asians and Caucasians. The reason for this is because my Asian friends understood me when it came to my cultural background, such as parent expectation and basically growing up Asian. My white friends were people I knew and befriended in the AP classes.
These were conflicting times. My Asian friends called me Banana or Twinkie because I acted too "white" - to this day I still don't understand how to act "Asian." Whereas I was sometimes placed in the Miley Cyrus situation with my white friends, meaning, they made racist jokes and I uncomfortably laughed or was deemed too sensitive when I was offended. I know better now than to take that sort of behavior.
I went to college far from my hometown so one of the first things I did was join a club, Asian Pacific Student Alliance. This way, I can be active on campus and make new friends who have a similar background as me. I'm still friends with a lot of the Asians in the club. To my relief, I wasn't called Twinkie or banana.
I went to a small liberal arts college (Drury) in a small Midwestern city. The only demographics-centered group I know of is the International Students Association, so we didn't have that luxury of such diverse groups. So far, since college, my closest friends (really close) are a intelligent-open white guy who comes from the somewhat poor background, a female international student from Ghana, and a very nice anime-loving white girl. This might be too much detail, but I just want to describe how my college environment and personal experiences are like for that school.
In terms of the Bananas you all talked of, for some odd reason, I didn't see them as such, more like they were just being themselves. Like for the Asian American students, the music lovers hang out with other music lovers, sports lovers with their own group, tech-lovers with their group, etc. and there was much overlapping. I don't remember any Asian American who specifically didn't contact with other Asian Americans, but there were a few bad apples, mostly due to their personality issues.
I went to a small liberal arts college (Drury) in a small Midwestern city. The only demographics-centered group I know of is the International Students Association, so we didn't have that luxury of such diverse groups. So far, since college, my closest friends (really close) are a intelligent-open white guy who comes from the somewhat poor background, a female international student from Ghana, and a very nice anime-loving white girl. This might be too much detail, but I just want to describe how my college environment and personal experiences are like for that school.
In terms of the Bananas you all talked of, for some odd reason, I didn't see them as such, more like they were just being themselves. Like for the Asian American students, the music lovers hang out with other music lovers, sports lovers with their own group, tech-lovers with their group, etc. and there was much overlapping. I don't remember any Asian American who specifically didn't contact with other Asian Americans, but there were a few bad apples, mostly due to their personality issues.
@Jeff: There was the Korean Student Association, Japanese Student Association, Indian Student Association, etc. And everyone seemed to hang out with their groups, except for the "bananas" of course.
@Jeff: There was the Korean Student Association, Japanese Student Association, Indian Student Association, etc. And everyone seemed to hang out with their groups, except for the "bananas" of course.
Interesting. So what if you were, say, Korean or Japanese or Filipino? Did that make you a banana or non-Asian?
At the Ivy I went to as an undergraduate, my many (but not all) of my closest friends were black and hispanic. I had more in common with them as we had all grown up in minority communities that had some urban attitude. I found that I didn't have much in common with the immigrant Asians or the many Asian kids who grew up in mostly white neighborhoods. There were extremely few Filipino kids, and none with the west coast, minority community background that I had. There was one Japanese-American kid from LA who had a similar background as me, and we would occasionally get together and comment on how weird we thought that East Coast Asians were.
That being said, one of the best learning experiences of college was dealing with a whole variety of people. I am glad that I didn't segregate myself off into some group all of the time.
Interesting. So what if you were, say, Korean or Japanese or Filipino? Did that make you a banana or non-Asian?
At the Ivy I went to as an undergraduate, my many (but not all) of my closest friends were black and hispanic. I had more in common with them as we had all grown up in minority communities that had some urban attitude. I found that I didn't have much in common with the immigrant Asians or the many Asian kids who grew up in mostly white neighborhoods. There were extremely few Filipino kids, and none with the west coast, minority community background that I had. There was one Japanese-American kid from LA who had a similar background as me, and we would occasionally get together and comment on how weird we thought that East Coast Asians were.
That being said, one of the best learning experiences of college was dealing with a whole variety of people. I am glad that I didn't segregate myself off into some group all of the time.
I go to Fordham University in Bronx, NY where it is only 6% asian. It was actually quite easy to meet a lot of the asian students, since most of them will seek other asians out. The stereotypes still exist. Only we use "twinkie" instead of banana. Most of the asian students are stereotyped FOBs who predominantly socialize with other FOBs.
I go to Fordham University in Bronx, NY where it is only 6% asian. It was actually quite easy to meet a lot of the asian students, since most of them will seek other asians out. The stereotypes still exist. Only we use "twinkie" instead of banana. Most of the asian students are stereotyped FOBs who predominantly socialize with other FOBs.
As a former E&E engineering student in NZ (graduated years ago) the entire faculty was almost asian. This was due to the high influx of foreign students. As a fellow asian and kiwi, my friends and I had no problems with that (Auckland is a fairly multi cultural place).
Unfortunately most asian students tend to stick with their nationality. And on graduations, I would say over 95% went home as well. It's not really a clique but more of the culture that each student is comfortable with. It's not surprising that most European students mix well here only because Europe itself has a fairly diverse mix of culture there already.
Most of us who are still living and working in NZ or Australia mix with everyone and usually at the local pub. I guess you can say we're a pub culture. :) So if you enjoy whiskey or a good pint, come on over. It goes well with Yum Cha over in Auckland or Melbourne ;)
As a former E&E engineering student in NZ (graduated years ago) the entire faculty was almost asian. This was due to the high influx of foreign students. As a fellow asian and kiwi, my friends and I had no problems with that (Auckland is a fairly multi cultural place).
Unfortunately most asian students tend to stick with their nationality. And on graduations, I would say over 95% went home as well. It's not really a clique but more of the culture that each student is comfortable with. It's not surprising that most European students mix well here only because Europe itself has a fairly diverse mix of culture there already.
Most of us who are still living and working in NZ or Australia mix with everyone and usually at the local pub. I guess you can say we're a pub culture. :) So if you enjoy whiskey or a good pint, come on over. It goes well with Yum Cha over in Auckland or Melbourne ;)
in college, i had both banana and non-banana friends. for me, it depended more on the person rather than whether or not they were "banana"... although in my experience, it did seem like the non-bananas tend to be more clique-ish.
in college, i had both banana and non-banana friends. for me, it depended more on the person rather than whether or not they were "banana"... although in my experience, it did seem like the non-bananas tend to be more clique-ish.
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