Excited
This past weekend, Korean Hip-Hop group Epik High independently released their new book/album Map the Soul via their website. Similar to Radiohead’s release of In Rainbows which was released on their website and allowed each fan to pay as little or as much as they want, the release of Map the Soul is a celebration of their fans, the freedom of independent music, and the arts. It’s quickly been heralded as a success for those very reasons; the loyalty these guys show to their fans is ridiculous. They remain true to their art despite their success and it’s very admirable.
Even though I don’t personally understand or speak Korean, Epik High remains one of my favorite groups because their music translates beyond the barriers of language. You can hear the emotion and dedication they put into the work just by listening to the way they rap or their rhymes.
So to say that I was a bit disappointed when I heard this is sort of an understatement. Warning: There is explicit language in the following clip.
It addresses a similar issue addressing racial satire posted by Yan and begs the question: when does racially motivated humor — or any humor involving race, sexual orientation, gender, and so on — stop being funny and become offensive? I personally find Carlos Mencia to be offensive, but I find Russell Peters and Dave Chappelle to be funny due to the way they present their material, but if you don’t buy that, Thea Lim at Racialicious posts on why she thinks Russell Peters stopped being funny and became offensive in his newest act, and I buy it. Thea claims that when the “jokes” lack a certain punchline, they become inappropriate and inadequate blows at certain behavior and stereotypes of a certain group of people; the joke isn’t the refusal to help the man with his t-shirt order — that wouldn’t be very funny and would be quite mean — but in the man’s accent and their interpretation and play off that man’s accent. I think this skit is inherently offensive and not funny. It is a “joke” without a punchline.
This reaffirms two beliefs for me: that the line between humor and offensiveness is ridiculously gray and is dependent upon very vague and unspecific guidelines of both race and humor, and that the term “Asian American” is way too broad. We don’t notice it when Russell Peters does it because we categorize South Asians differently from East Asians. (And let’s be honest, not many people do.) But here, it’s a conflict between Koreans/Korean Americans and Chinese/Chinese Americans, and while we have many cultural similarities, there are also countless cultural and lingual barriers. Tanzila Ahmed, AngryAsianMan’s reader of the week criticizes those “Folks doing APIA work that doesn’t include South Asian or Pacific Islander groups, but still [claim] that they are pan-APIA.” I don’t make that claim, but I should and am going to start to be more aware (the first step was to visit a community blog she is a part of, Sepia Mutiny).
But does this mean we should start independent struggles and fights for social justice? No, but there should be a greater awareness of the cultural differences between the sub-categories of “Asian American.” Does that mean I hate Epik High or, like Tommy Brothers — responsible for the Dartmouth mishap — think that they are “hateful” or “racist?” No, Epik High has great music, and the average citizen of the world probably couldn’t care less and would probably scoff at this post, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t wrong.
How does this post make you feel?
- Fascinated
- Amused
- Bored
- Sad
- Angry
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hi! i'm a chinese-american and i actually thought it was funny, not offensive. i can totally understand someone being offended though. to me, i don't really think its a big deal.
True, Kevin, but have you seen any international Mandarin/Chinese singers poking fun at Koreans? Wang Leehom? I don't think so. In fact, if you listen to his album u00e7u009bu0096u00e4u00b8u0096u00e8u008bu00b1u00e9u009bu0084 (Heroes of Earth) I am actually surprised he chose to sing a song with other Korean singers (Rain).
Heck, I have a lot of Chinese friends (mainlander, ABC, HK, TW, etc.) listening to Korean artists such as Epik High. Their reaction to something like this? Probably awkwardness.
True, Kevin, but have you seen any international Mandarin/Chinese singers poking fun at Koreans? Wang Leehom? I don't think so. In fact, if you listen to his album u00e7u009bu0096u00e4u00b8u0096u00e8u008bu00b1u00e9u009bu0084 (Heroes of Earth) I am actually surprised he chose to sing a song with other Korean singers (Rain).
Heck, I have a lot of Chinese friends (mainlander, ABC, HK, TW, etc.) listening to Korean artists such as Epik High. Their reaction to something like this? Probably awkwardness.
It's nice to see a post from awhile ago still garnering some reads. While I caution for racial sensitivity amongst 2 groups of East Asians, no way do I or should anyone advocate that such insensitivity is one-sided, or that only one group is to blame. To say that Chinese do not poke fun at Koreans would be absolutely false.
It's nice to see a post from awhile ago still garnering some reads. While I caution for racial sensitivity amongst 2 groups of East Asians, no way do I or should anyone advocate that such insensitivity is one-sided, or that only one group is to blame. To say that Chinese do not poke fun at Koreans would be absolutely false.
I have to agree with what the person above me posted. This isn't just a joke, if anyone has interacted with Koreans (I am talking about Koreans, not expatriate Koreans) there exist substantial amounts of animosity between the two groups. Just to name an example, Koreans would readily claim aspects of Chinese culture as theirs, ranging from Sun Yat Sen to Confucius to Duan Wu festival.
That is the context through which I see this 'joke'. The fact of the matter is, Koreans tend to look down upon Chinese (for various) reasons, and I don't give a damn if that's a stereotype, because that is what I see in general, and I have yet to see any existence of a majority in a minority of Koreans who actually respect Chinese.
And for anyone questioning the validity of this remarks, I currently reside in mainland China, and forty percent of the people at my institution are Korean. Need I continue?
The reaction in the mainland is obvious; most people choose to not purchase Korean products (would rather purchase Japanese instead). Same could be said for me, I would rather purchase ANYTHING than Samsung, LG, or any of that crap.
Sun Zi talked about knowing yourself and your enemy and you will win a hundred battles; unfortunately, as much as I try, it is almost impossible to get to this Korean mindset of utter ignorance, from the perspective of a Chinese. Just like it is almost impossible for a United States Marine to delve into the mind of an al-Qaeda terrorist; I am unable to understand the motivations and justifications behind such animosity towards the Chinese in general, of whatever territory and/or nationality.
In the end, I say we return this debt of honor. Can someone please bring MC Jin over here and begin the Korean bashing?
I have to agree with what the person above me posted. This isn't just a joke, if anyone has interacted with Koreans (I am talking about Koreans, not expatriate Koreans) there exist substantial amounts of animosity between the two groups. Just to name an example, Koreans would readily claim aspects of Chinese culture as theirs, ranging from Sun Yat Sen to Confucius to Duan Wu festival.
That is the context through which I see this 'joke'. The fact of the matter is, Koreans tend to look down upon Chinese (for various) reasons, and I don't give a damn if that's a stereotype, because that is what I see in general, and I have yet to see any existence of a majority in a minority of Koreans who actually respect Chinese.
And for anyone questioning the validity of this remarks, I currently reside in mainland China, and forty percent of the people at my institution are Korean. Need I continue?
The reaction in the mainland is obvious; most people choose to not purchase Korean products (would rather purchase Japanese instead). Same could be said for me, I would rather purchase ANYTHING than Samsung, LG, or any of that crap.
Sun Zi talked about knowing yourself and your enemy and you will win a hundred battles; unfortunately, as much as I try, it is almost impossible to get to this Korean mindset of utter ignorance, from the perspective of a Chinese. Just like it is almost impossible for a United States Marine to delve into the mind of an al-Qaeda terrorist; I am unable to understand the motivations and justifications behind such animosity towards the Chinese in general, of whatever territory and/or nationality.
In the end, I say we return this debt of honor. Can someone please bring MC Jin over here and begin the Korean bashing?
even though this article was from a while back, I'm glad to see it here.
As a Chinese-Canadian, when I first listened to this skit I got a gut feeling that something wasn't quite right. I'm not a prude against racial humor but this wasn't funny. Usually with humor pieces involving the Chinese accent, it's non-East Asians making a joke about East Asians. But here we have 2 groups - Koreans and Chinese (both East Asians), and Epik High are clearly throwing the joke. Pretty clear when one group says "Wai" and the other says "Nuguseyo". I was uncomfortable with the hierarchal thing going on in this skit - with Chinese being pitted at the bottom
but I really love Epik High and their music, so when I first heard this on the album, it was a total dotdotdot moment
even though this article was from a while back, I'm glad to see it here.
As a Chinese-Canadian, when I first listened to this skit I got a gut feeling that something wasn't quite right. I'm not a prude against racial humor but this wasn't funny. Usually with humor pieces involving the Chinese accent, it's non-East Asians making a joke about East Asians. But here we have 2 groups - Koreans and Chinese (both East Asians), and Epik High are clearly throwing the joke. Pretty clear when one group says "Wai" and the other says "Nuguseyo". I was uncomfortable with the hierarchal thing going on in this skit - with Chinese being pitted at the bottom
but I really love Epik High and their music, so when I first heard this on the album, it was a total dotdotdot moment
Danny -
Read the whole post again, because it answers why it is offensive. Yeah.
I live in the real world, and want to change it. I don't like the status quo, that's where you and I differ. SNL makes fun of other races in a greater scheme of a greater joke. I think a really good example in the Vinny Vedecci skits, where the joke isn't so much the accent or italian culture, but the quirks of individuals and the play on a certain individual etc. Look at the Shia Labeouf (from woman to man?), John Malkovich (for being John Malkovich LOL) , and Seth Rogen (bear?) ones.
I wouldn't know if Epik HIgh cares if I called them "dog-eating gooks" (If I meet them, which I hopefully will in two weeks, I'll ask for you), but yes I would, and I think most people would, be offended.
The accent is offensive because it is an inaccurate portrayal and over-generalization of the Asian American identity. In your world, it is safe to assume that you're an A student who did nothing but study all year (and therefore got a 2400/1600 on your SATS), eats rice, dogs, monkey brains, and so on three times a day, has a funky accent, drives a modified Honda Civic, and can dance like all those guys from Jabbawockeez/Kaba Modern/Quest Crew. Am I accurate in my description of you? if not is it okay to make such generalizations and assume such?
Danny -
Read the whole post again, because it answers why it is offensive. Yeah.
I live in the real world, and want to change it. I don't like the status quo, that's where you and I differ. SNL makes fun of other races in a greater scheme of a greater joke. I think a really good example in the Vinny Vedecci skits, where the joke isn't so much the accent or italian culture, but the quirks of individuals and the play on a certain individual etc. Look at the Shia Labeouf (from woman to man?), John Malkovich (for being John Malkovich LOL) , and Seth Rogen (bear?) ones.
I wouldn't know if Epik HIgh cares if I called them "dog-eating gooks" (If I meet them, which I hopefully will in two weeks, I'll ask for you), but yes I would, and I think most people would, be offended.
The accent is offensive because it is an inaccurate portrayal and over-generalization of the Asian American identity. In your world, it is safe to assume that you're an A student who did nothing but study all year (and therefore got a 2400/1600 on your SATS), eats rice, dogs, monkey brains, and so on three times a day, has a funky accent, drives a modified Honda Civic, and can dance like all those guys from Jabbawockeez/Kaba Modern/Quest Crew. Am I accurate in my description of you? if not is it okay to make such generalizations and assume such?
Are you guys kidding me? How is this offensive? There are chinese people that really sound like that; the racial slurs are all a matter of how you take it. Do you think Epik High cares if you call them dog-eating gooks? I sure don't. Should SNL be taken off the air because it makes fun of other races? It seems as if all the people saying this kind of humor is offensive are people that are over-dramatizing. If you are easily offended by these kind of racial jokes, maybe the real world isn't for you. Deal with your trials and tribulations and learn to rise above them....jeez I thought it was one of the funniest things ever.
Another thing to note is that what is so offensive about the phone caller having an accent? Why is that offensive? Please tell me how that accent that we have ALL heard before in China and in America is offensive.
Are you guys kidding me? How is this offensive? There are chinese people that really sound like that; the racial slurs are all a matter of how you take it. Do you think Epik High cares if you call them dog-eating gooks? I sure don't. Should SNL be taken off the air because it makes fun of other races? It seems as if all the people saying this kind of humor is offensive are people that are over-dramatizing. If you are easily offended by these kind of racial jokes, maybe the real world isn't for you. Deal with your trials and tribulations and learn to rise above them....jeez I thought it was one of the funniest things ever.
Another thing to note is that what is so offensive about the phone caller having an accent? Why is that offensive? Please tell me how that accent that we have ALL heard before in China and in America is offensive.
That is not funny. At least with that Single Ladies parody, you can understand that, from an extremely unsophisticated standpoint, it could be kind of funny. This is just offensive. I still don't understand why people think anything done with an accent is immediately "hilarious"
That is not funny. At least with that Single Ladies parody, you can understand that, from an extremely unsophisticated standpoint, it could be kind of funny. This is just offensive. I still don't understand why people think anything done with an accent is immediately "hilarious"
Video re-upped. I'd like to point out that there are "Chinese sucks, Korea Rules" comments.
Video re-upped. I'd like to point out that there are "Chinese sucks, Korea Rules" comments.
Hey Eric, thanks for responding. I'll see if I can find another youtube clip.
The issue presented isn't an issue involving Asian America, but what can only be best described as sub divisions of Asian America (IE. Korean American vs. Chinese American, etc.) So while he may be sensitive to Asian American issues, I think the skit in inherently insensitive to Chinese American, playing off stereotypes and using said stereotypes as the joke and nothing else.
I understand that the Epik Highs mean harmless fun, and I see the merits of its humor, but I do believe that it pushes the line more than a high profile artist should. I used to think of it the same way, it's humor for humor's sake... but where do we stop drawing the line for humor? It's not Epik High that I'm worried about, but the fans. Dave Chappelle knew he wasn't racist, and that doing his skits wasn't going to make him "racist", but he worried his audience would construe what he believed pushed the line of racism to such extremes as okay, because it was on mass media, which is usually politically correct. The history of racism, shows that there seems to be no middle ground for racism. We jump from secretly bashing other ethnicities in our private residences, or agreeing with potentially racist jokes to violence, cross burnings, and lynchings. Where is the middle ground and why is there such a jump. More importantly, it is important to recognize that there is that jump.
I am aware that I am hypersensitive to such issues, but that's sometimes necessary in order to make "progress."
Hey Eric, thanks for responding. I'll see if I can find another youtube clip.
The issue presented isn't an issue involving Asian America, but what can only be best described as sub divisions of Asian America (IE. Korean American vs. Chinese American, etc.) So while he may be sensitive to Asian American issues, I think the skit in inherently insensitive to Chinese American, playing off stereotypes and using said stereotypes as the joke and nothing else.
I understand that the Epik Highs mean harmless fun, and I see the merits of its humor, but I do believe that it pushes the line more than a high profile artist should. I used to think of it the same way, it's humor for humor's sake... but where do we stop drawing the line for humor? It's not Epik High that I'm worried about, but the fans. Dave Chappelle knew he wasn't racist, and that doing his skits wasn't going to make him "racist", but he worried his audience would construe what he believed pushed the line of racism to such extremes as okay, because it was on mass media, which is usually politically correct. The history of racism, shows that there seems to be no middle ground for racism. We jump from secretly bashing other ethnicities in our private residences, or agreeing with potentially racist jokes to violence, cross burnings, and lynchings. Where is the middle ground and why is there such a jump. More importantly, it is important to recognize that there is that jump.
I am aware that I am hypersensitive to such issues, but that's sometimes necessary in order to make "progress."
Just a head's up, Youtube says the clip was removed. But I've heard it before and I found it harmless. The main rapper for Epik High, Tablo, is an Asian American (or used to be?) who went to Stanford so I assume he is aware of at least some Asian American sensitivities. I think "Customer Service" may have originated from their own experiences in being exposed to non-Korean fans from all over Asia and this is their exaggerated rendition of it for humor's sake. I thought it was funny and I enjoy their music as well.
Just a head's up, Youtube says the clip was removed. But I've heard it before and I found it harmless. The main rapper for Epik High, Tablo, is an Asian American (or used to be?) who went to Stanford so I assume he is aware of at least some Asian American sensitivities. I think "Customer Service" may have originated from their own experiences in being exposed to non-Korean fans from all over Asia and this is their exaggerated rendition of it for humor's sake. I thought it was funny and I enjoy their music as well.
"I personally find Carlos Mencia to be offensive"
and loud. very, very, very loud.
"I personally find Carlos Mencia to be offensive"
and loud. very, very, very loud.
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