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On Matchmaking and Asian Male/White Female Interracial Relationships

By Ben | Sunday, May 3, 2009 | 35 Comments

I was reading this MercuryNews.com article about how online dating working for some Asian Californians and that they had to start their own matchmaking service to get things going, my first thought was to say, Hey, whatever works for you. But the lady that started the Asian matchmaking services says this little soundbite that kind of bothers me:

“Most Asian men feel they couldn’t handle Caucasian women,” she says. “In most Asian families, the man is in charge. Here it’s equal.”

Seriously? She must be of the “older generation” since I’ve never felt this way. I’ve never had an inferiority complex with Caucasian women; who hasn’t grow up in a nuclear family in our generation? Granted, I’m a rarity, given that I’m in an Asian Male/White Female (AMWF) relationship and tying the knot next month. But this Ma didn’t realize that there are niche markets for dating and it’s growing strong, even here in the South where the Asian population couldn’t dare compare with the west coast.

Take for example, AZNLover.com — a website created in 2004 with the tag line of: “Asian males – and the women who love them.” I’ve been browsing the site since Jeff Yang’s article in the San Francisco Chronicle, and they truly contradict what Ma thinks of the dating scene for Asian men with non-Asian females. Here in North Carolina, the likelihood of bumping into AMWF interracial couples are slim; if the Asian male is a recent immigrant? Even less; yet, at the last NAAAP meeting I attended, I met two other mixed couples breaking those odds. In one meeting. How crazy is that? I should have bought a lotto ticket that night.

Here’s what I’m getting at — in the United States, even the rural areas — we are starting to see more of the AMXF couples — interracial couples with Asian males. And that makes me happy to know that I won’t have to deal with the entire “most Asian men feel they couldn’t handle white women” mindset for too long. Hate to break it to Ma, but if a guy has an inferiority complex with dating women and not treating them equal, the Asian thing is the least of his concerns.

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  • Jason

    “Most Asian men feel they couldn’t handle Caucasian women,” she says. “In most Asian families, the man is in charge. Here it’s equal.”

    Seriously? She must be of the “older generation” since I’ve never felt this way. I’ve never had an inferiority complex with Caucasian women;

    Ben, I don’t think you read that quote correctly. I think Ma was saying that a lot of immigrant asian men want and expect their wives to be subservient to them, and they think that most American-born white women will not act that way. I don’t think it is an inferiority complex, they just don’t want deal with a woman who expects to be an equal partner in the relationship.

    The quote you should have picked up on was “Hardly any Caucasian women want to date Asian men, Ma says” which is not true at all.

  • http://www.8asians.com John

    I think Asian men also may feel to have a family obligation to date & marry an Asian woman. I know that was my father’s desire and preference.

    Additionally, in terms of inferiority complex, I thought maybe you were trying to say that maybe Asian men might feel as though they are inferior due to the stereotypes around Asian men in American society rather than like what Jason just commented on, having an equal partner.

    In this context, Asian men’s reluctance to ask or date white women would be due to the fact that they don’t believe they can. And this is only reinforced by the imbalance of WMAF vs. AMWF that an Asian man sees.

    The most prominent AMWF couple I’ve seen recently is Secretary of Energy Steven Chu with his white wife. I think what would be more surprising than a black president (half black, half white) and black first lady would be to have an Asian president with a white first lady!

  • Dan

    “Most Asian men feel they couldn’t handle Caucasian women,” she says. “In most Asian families, the man is in charge. Here it’s equal.”

    2nd generation Asian men have absolutely no reason to feel the need to be more in charge of a relationship than what is expected within the norms of American male-female power dynamics in a relationship, so that’s quite a generalization to make.

  • aj

    ^
    Yeah, but you guys are forgetting that Asian American girls are Americanized and open-minded, while Asian American men magically are not, and retain their old, somewhat misogynistic “Asian” values.

    I thought everyone knew this as seen here by the great members of 8asians.

    http://www.8asians.com/2007/08/11/why-asian-girls-go-for-white-guys-a-response/

  • aj

    Oops, I forgot to add that what I said above only applies to straight asian men, as seen here, again, by the great members of this site. Straight Asian men FTL!

    http://www.8asians.com/2008/09/05/the-8asianscom-writers-talk-about-whether-john-cho-is-hot-or-not/

  • Confuse-Us

    “Most Asian men feel they couldn’t handle Caucasian women,” she says. “In most Asian families, the man is in charge. Here it’s equal.”

    That’s pretty ignorant.

  • Taiwanese Guy

    What we should be asking is what made us as East Asian Americans!? Why is it that we have to endure the PREJUDICE as 2nd Class Citizens as East Asian Americans? I do not see White Women Americans as a ticket to Higher Social-Economic Status especially those that are forcing me and others to Convert to Christian! Our High Social-Economic Status are “EARNED” from the CULTURE of EFFORTS and HARD WORKS embed into our East Asian Heritages!

    What does ‘American’ mean, anyways?
    http://politicoholic.com/2009/01/16/what-does-american-mean-anyways/

    Fighting for Depth….
    http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=515779

    Why there is not more East Asian American Managers?
    http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1986/11/24/68318/index.htm

    Asian American Assimilation vs Acculturation….
    http://www.goldsea.com/Air/Issues/Identity/identity_30313.html

    All these InterRacial Datings are really doing is telling us East Asian Americans that unless we are WHITENING DOWN! We are just not AMERICAN ENOUGH! However, White Americans can always be proud of their British American Heritage, Irish American Heritage, French American Heritage, Italian American Heritage, German American Heritage, Israeli American Heritage, and so on! Why is that our East Asian Americans are treated as less Americans? Isn’t all the White Americans also Immigrants to this country at some point of American History!?

  • Paul Z

    Taiwanese Guy: I don’t think we Asian Americans need “a ticket to higher socioeconomic status”, I think most of us already belong to the upper-middle class. I think Asian Americans make the most money out of all races. In my experiences, people now longer are treated by what they look like, they’re more treated on how they dress, speak, and act. Sometimes one of my friends say I “act white”, and I think it’s just some random ignorant self hate. I always tell them that I don’t “act white”, I act “upper-middle class American”.

    Ben: I just moved to NC a year ago from Washington DC, I DO understand that comparatively, being Asian American is almost like a “handicap” when it comes to attracting girls, comparing to DC where things are more like “level playing ground”. I currently am dating a white girl myself, and the only thing I can say about it, is that Asian American men need an unrealistic amount of confidence, and if they don’t even acknowledge race as an issue, others usually won’t either. PS, what part of NC do you live in?

  • jabb

    in hawaii, the most interracial state in america it is not un-common to see asian males w/ non-asian women. i think asian males are actually preferred in this region of our country.

  • http://life.firelace.com Ben

    @Paul: Triad area. ;) It’s on Google. haha.

  • Paul Z

    I actually live in Greensboro, I understand how BFE triad area really is.

  • http://life.firelace.com Ben

    @Paul: Wow. Lived in GSO for the last 7 years. In W-S now since I’m getting married. But yeah, if it wasn’t for the local NAAAP chapter, I’d probably have very little contact with local Asian community. Maybe we’ll need to do an 8A Southern get-together. haha.

  • http://www.bigwowo.com jaehwan

    Ben,

    Thanks for the article. I agree with you on your observation that her quote was ignorant. Given her clientele (“Ma’s business depends in large part upon white men who want to marry Asian women…”) and the people who usually comprise the demographic of privileged people who seek minority partners specifically beause of race, I’m not surprised that she has internalized those stereotypes. I mean, seriously, just because she has so few Asian men and White women dating through her service, is it logical for her to assume that such couplings don’t exist or don’t want to exist?

    By the way, this is very timely. I just had a podcast yesterday with one of your long-time members URB4N on the topic of interracial dating. I just posted it here:

    http://www.bigwowo.com/2009/05/podcast-urb4n-talks-about-ir/

    and I referenced your article. So thanks again.

  • Paul Z

    Ben: I’ve been to a triad NAAAP dinner once due to a friend’s invitation, so I’ve probably met you before. In my one-time experiences, it feels a lot more like a “business networking” even than a “friendly get-together” – everyone started talking about their jobs and such. Just out of curiosity, do you feel like Asian males base most of their identity around their profession?

  • xyb21

    Just find a girl in the home country, same race, same culture and your kids might get a higher chance of perserving the language. here’s something, if no then don’t call yourself a Asian-American.

  • Tristan

    @Ben and Paul,

    How do you guys like Greensboro?

    As someone who has spent my entire life here, I’ve grown tired of it. The young Asian American population around here is not at all accessible for me. My interest is in activism, and there’s not a whole lot of that going on around here.

    I’m finishing up undergrad at Guilford College, and thinking about a graduate program at UNC. On the other hand, I feel like living for a year or so on the West Coast might also put everything into perspective for me. From this site and others, I can tell that there are a ton more things going on out there that involve young APAs than around the Triad area.

  • http://life.firelace.com Ben

    @Tristan: At first Greensboro itself was a bit small when I moved here from Seattle area. But overall, after doing a lot of community work and participating in Leadership Greensboro et al, it’s actually been rather useful in the entirety. I’d never get the chance to do the same types of things in a bigger city. Activism wise and APA, you might have better luck on the west coast. But on the flip side? There are a lot of people to fight for, and this area is what you could call the “last stand” area.

    Amusingly, the reason I say that is because much of what I encounter here, is far from what I would say would happen in my old haunts back west, and most of 8A readership would probably scoff at some of the things that you are more likely to encounter here. Puts things into perspective though since with a lot of the good comes some of the bad. YMMV but I like the South. However, depending on your experiences, it might not be the most comfortable experience as an Asian American.

  • Taiwanese Guy

    Tristan,

    “As someone who has spent my entire life here, I’ve grown tired of it. The young Asian American population around here is not at all accessible for me. My interest is in activism, and there’s not a whole lot of that going on around here.”

    Our Asian American Population made up like only 5% of total USA Population! That included the Muslim Asians as well! If we just count the East Asian American Population only, that would even be lower! I don’t think InterRacial Marriages are addressing our problems at all! It just sweep those DISCRIMINATIONS of our East Asian Americans under the Rugs again in America for the next East Asian Generation to worry about!!

    Paul Z,

    “unrealistic amount of confidence”

    What the hell is this BS Confidence!? That’s just like one of those BUSINESS BUZZ WORDS, which pretend to say something important! In reality, people that use it are clueless what it is really about, but it impress the hell out of their BOSS (Oh, some of those ideas are really UNWORKING SHIT)!

    A lot of our East Asian Brothers do not understand the INNER GAME OF DATING! All women out there are always testing if the MAN is a WUSS or not! The reason women do that is because when a woman is pregnant they would be defenseless! This is evolution built into the women’s subconscious mind!

    Another word, women look for a Strong Man (or act like one) even if he’s a JERK to many others out there! Women will always say that they want a NICE GUY! However, they will always choose the JERKS over the NICE GUYS (Doormat)! This is because JERKS give them the SEXUAL ATTRACTION they want!

    Of course, women don’t want a 100% JERK either! Those 100% JERKS will beat up on their Women (That’s WHY America is full of Single Mother)! Women want a NICE GUY really inside but are JERK outside! This is because when thing goes bad! She expecting the guy to stick his neck out for her! Understand!?

    This is why the GEEK and WUSSY PERSONA promoted on American Controlled Media will work against our East Asian Guys in most cases even through we have plenty of our guys that are like Bruce Lee and so on!

  • http://life.firelace.com Ben

    “…we have plenty of our guys that are like Bruce Lee and so on!”

    lol. Wow. What a way to throw most of your argument out the window with the last phrase. You do realize that Bruce Lee had an interracial marriage right? And the fact that there’s single mothers doesn’t necessarily equate to men beating on their women. That’s like saying the crazy serial rapist was a man, so thus all men are crazy serial rapists. Faulty logic. Are there “100% JERKS”? Sure. But there’s a lot more to relationships. The number reason for divorce isn’t because the guy is a jerk. It’s because of finances.

    If you want to be active in activism, that’s great. All the best, but word of advice is don’t use that sort of logic. You might get laughed out the door.

  • Tristan

    @Ben,

    I definitely see a lot of communities around here for which I could advocate. The problem for me is that I’m adopted, and so that means there’s a barrier for access between me and the mostly-immigrant communities around Greensboro. I feel that living and interacting on the West Coast might give me a jumping-off point and let me become more comfortable with myself. Really, I kinda figure being out there might make me feel like I belong to a community, and then perhaps I can come back to places like NC and start doing some good work.

    @Taiwanese Guy,

    Dude, tone down the rhetoric a bit. I’m not sure to what part of my post you were responding, but be careful in the ways you typecast women. I understand just as well as anyone that there is a double standard in the media that debases Asian men and exoticizes Asian women as sexual objects. But to state what women want or should want and what they think etc. is pretty chauvinistic and robs our sisters of agency. There is no simple answer to the matter of interracial dating.

  • Paul Z

    I just moved here from DC about a year ago, and in DC, I ran with the “yuppy” crowd – upper middle class young single professionals. And in my experiences, the upper middle class of “this generation” rarely ever see color or race at all – they discriminate on other factors, such as how you speak, dress, etc. Now that I’m in back-woods NC, I feel the same way, but the only difference is that the “upper middle class” is only a very small percentage of people around me, instead of “everyone I come in contact with” in DC.

    Tristan: It doesn’t have to be the west coast – moved to DC or Manhattan, they both are much better than NC in this perspective.

    Taiwanese Guy: I’m guessing you’re from the Venusian Arts community (pick-up community), please don’t spread those types of ideas on male-female social dynamics without the whole explanation behind them, it’s cool to talk about it with other pick-up buddies about topics like that, but the things you just talk about, without the context around them, to mainstream society, makes you look like a weirdo. And the pickup community doesn’t need more “weird” representations of it.

  • http://www.littleyellowdifferent.com Ernie

    And disemvoweled. Keep the conversation intelligent, folks.

  • Taiwanese Guy

    Yh Ww,

    Thy crtnly scrmbl my mssgs p gd thr!!

    t sms lk http://www.8sns.cm dn’t spprt m tlkng bt th stffs tht mprv pckng p n th HT GRLS! nstd, thy r jst hr t blm vrythng n th st sn Mn!

  • Taiwanese Guy

    rn,

    “nd dsmvwld. Kp th cnvrstn ntllgnt, flks.”

    Bn s CWRD! Cn’t vn hndl my RFT! dn’t thnk h s vn n f r st sn Mn! Wb sts lk ths r ll th sm! Thy dn’t wnt t tch r st sn Brthrs n hw t pck p ny grls t ny plcs! Thy r jst hr t kck r st sn Mn n th BLLS!

    Cnfdnc s BS! f smn nvr vr bx bfr, w snd hm nt th rng wth Mnny Pcq (bst pnd-fr-pnd bxr)! s h gng t srvv? Hll N! H s gng t gt hs rs kckd lk Rcky Httn (nd Httn s sklld)!!

    Rmmbr tht whn gy pprchd ny wmn n nght clb nd mst plcs, sh’s ctlly fndng rsns t sht th gy dwn! Hr frnds wth hr wld b dng th sm s wll!!

    ntllgnt Cnvrstn!? Thr s nn f tht hr frm ppl tht ’m tlkng wth! ll s s bnch f CWRDS tkng chp sht t r st sn Mn wth r hnds t p n thr rp!!

  • http://life.firelace.com Ben

    Okay, first. I didn’t find your information worth refuting. Different perspectives, sure, but worthwhile for me to say something? Not really. Calling me names to get me to play is pretty low considering most of your arguments defeat each other within the same comment. You’ll say one thing in one paragraph and in another make another example that throws the first point out completely.

    Second, If you want to teach people to pick up girls, go find a site that does it. There’s plenty of them.

    If you got disemvoweled, obviously you ran amuck somewhere with your commenting. Anyone that’s ever bothered to get to know me knows that I’m not as nice as Ernie with disemvowels. I would just throw the ban switch on my own blog for bad language.

    Personally, I’ve felt that I’ve been fairly nice about it, since the entire CAPS thing is rather annoying. Learn some Nettiquette. If you want to be taken seriously on any level, don’t type your rants like a eight year old since that’s what it comes across like. I’m glad you can/love/want to pick up women in clubs. Been there, done that, moved on to a better part of my life. But calling people names because you disagree? Sorry, but I find that pretty pathetic. Basically it means that you don’t have anything else to say so you’re resorting to insults.

    My two cents.

  • http://life.firelace.com Ben

    While I’m thinking about it, read the post more carefully. I didn’t put any blame on any sort of Asian person, female or otherwise. If anything, I was refuting the fact that the article I referenced that had Asian males (whether or not immigrant or first/second/+ gen) having issues with dating Caucasian girls was incorrect.

    Call me crazy, but I think that there might be a language barrier in which the subtlety escaped.

  • Paul Z

    Off-topic here: Taiwanese Guy seems to be a semi-newby in joining the pick-up community, even though he denies it. The things he talks about is straight from the “mainstream theories” of the community. I’ve seen the type, they found some knowledge they think is incredible, something totally different from what they’ve heard their whole lives. They go around spreading this knowledge anyplace they can, hoping others would think the knowledge is as incredible as they thinks it is, therefore attributing them with the spreading of the knowledge, making them feel good about themselves. I think every guy in the community goes through that for a brief period of time, and after a while, they realize this stuff, especially taken out of the “whole” concept, isn’t very receptive by mainstream society, and keep it to themselves. Before you start defending yourself due to knee jerk reaction of being “attacked”, please remember what the community is truly about – self-improvement and self-reflection.

    http://www.datinggroundwork.com/community

    Please take a look at this article, do some self-reflection on how many of those “weird” things you’ve done and still do (I know I’ve been guilty of some of those), and think of how we can better represent the community as “cool normal people” instead of “weird guy bragging about something weird”.

  • Tanairy

    Asain men are really beautiful and exotic. I absolutley adore them. I am hisapnic, but i have asian features. and people dont really see asian male hispanic female realtionships. That kinda sucks. Where i live thre are no asians at all. Unless i go to downtown Chicago. lol. For example on Friday i went to the taste of chicago, and i saw lots of asians, which made me very happy. i saw an asian male with a black female and i thought that was wonderful. They looked super cute together. of course there were lots of asian guys with white girls, and no offense to the white chicks, but everytime i see that i get annoyed and i envy them. Come on asian guys hispanic women are beautiful and believe it or not we adore you! Quit it with the white meat!

  • Gaetgehs

    Isn’t Justin Chatwin asian from Dragonball Evolution movie, because he’s hot!

  • stephanierf1

    I’m a white woman in a relationship with an asian male and I believe people are putting too much thought into this type of interracial relationship. I just simply do not see my bf as a color, but rather a person. I also live in the deep south and have a large family with ignorant beliefs regarding asian people in general. My bf definitely does not feel as though I’m too much to handle, lol. If anything it’s how our families will find a way to get along or even speak to each other! But anyway, this type of relationship is difficult if you let other people’s judgmental opinions influence your own life. I find it much easier when I forget others, which is hard when people gawk at us as if we are aliens. I think if people let go of raical stereotypes then they will see that there are a lot more options surrounding them other than their own race. To me he is my boyfriend and the guy I plan on having adorable children with, not someone who looks different and likes odd foods!

  • powerbee1

    I’m sorry but some of the comments here are kind of lame. If your ethnicity is dominant in your home country, obviously there would be dominance from gender as well, which is male (we live in a very male dominant society), and this is why it’s perfectly ok for western society to allow interracial couples between white male and asian female while white female and asian male couple is frowned upon in both asian and western cultures. I’m not necessarily suggesting it’s because of racism…it has to do with dominance and whites make up the most in the U.S.

  • Micht

    In the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, most of the Asian students, most of the Chinese students who went to study in Europe had white French, German, Italian, Russian, etc… girlfriends and most of them got married to white French, German, Italian, Russian, etc… girls.

    link http://asians-against-racism.socialgo.com/forum/topic/38

  • HagitNajar

    i am a 29 israeli-jew girl, and i love asian, i had a korean fiance but it didnt work because he had society issues, and also mother issues. i would love to meet an asian guy for serious relationship, but it seems to be difficult, because some see me as a fantasy and thats all, and to find a guy with no parents issues that is willing to marry a non asian girl its difficult…

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002251087743 Crispin Callahan

    The reason that Asian male/white female relationships are hated, and deserve hatred, is because the Asian men are normally hypocrites that have one night stands with white women but will harass Asian women for even considering white men.

    I am not saying all Asian men are like this, but the ones like this, like the ones on this website, need to be ground up and turned into soilent green.

  • http://www.facebook.com/JohnnieEgo Alex Kim

    hmm…

 
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