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Why Do People Hate Asian Male/White Female Relationships?

By Ben | Monday, January 24, 2011 | 180 Comments


So I was actually looking up to see whether or not Match.com or eHarmony had done any commercials with AMWF since it seemed like it’s the new thang to do as far as couples on television. I thought I saw a commercial with a mixed couple on there but instead I ran across this video of EmIlY72912.

In my experience, I’ve ran across very similar types of haters. I’m also going to assume that this is gender irrelevant and works the other way around.

  1. Caucasians: Most of these are more in line with white supremacy. Can’t dilute the line, yadda yadda.
  2. Asian females: Same but these are the ones that are insecure as if there aren’t enough Asian men to go around or something. Emily points out that it could be some sort of jealousy. There’s also mention of dilution of line.
  3. Asian Males: Same as Asian females and still the mention of dilution of line.

What’s with the fear of dilution of line? And, why are there insecurities of whom people date/marry and why must they date within or exclusive to any race? Why does it even matter?

While I can’t speak for everyone, and can only speak on my personal experiences, I have to say that whether it’s physical attraction, mental, both, love, or whatever other reason that two individuals get together, it doesn’t really matter what “line” is diluted. Hate to break it to everyone that’s in the dark, but your line statistically speaking has probably been diluted already. Or the decisions to date exclusive to one race or not. I know plenty of people that date different races and some date exclusive to certain races. Purely a preference thing and who am I to judge whom they choose to love, care about, or just bone? And neither should you: Worry about yourself, your own love life, or sex life, or whatever other type of relationship you have and get your noses out of other people’s business, please. And if you just can’t help yourself? That’s okay — just don’t get all teary-eyed when you get thrown into one of those three categories.

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  • Ed

    @PamelaNRed @David06 @A_Lee Read the article Pamela and honestly you summed it up perfectly. Unfortunately, I think you’d find that if your article was a test for participants of interracial relationships (and it should be) many would fail.

  • Ed

    @mike_le I agree with your post completely. I find many asians on the internet do not care about the issues affecting us and are more concerned about full assimilation on terms outside of our control. I’ve seen articles and posts on 8Asians and other “Asian” forums that describe how much better white people are. Is it really part of the Asian American experience to find your own people unattractive or less attractive than non-asians? Like WTF!!

  • http://tinabot.blogspot.com/ TinaTsai

    “race, Term once commonly used in physical anthropology to denote a division of humankind possessing traits that are transmissible by descent and sufficient to characterize it as a distinct human type (e.g., Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid).Today the term has little scientific standing, as older methods of differentiation, including hair form and body measurement, have given way to the comparative analysis of DNA and gene frequencies relating to such factors as blood typing, the excretion of amino acids, and inherited enzyme deficiencies. Because all human populations today are extremely similar genetically, most researchers have abandoned the concept of race…”
    http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/488030/race

    btw, Warrior’s Way was an awesome movie…^O^

  • http://hubpages.com/profile/Pamela+N+Red PamelaNRed

    @Ed @David06 @A_Lee It’s something I feel very passionately about. People need to think about their reasons before going into a relationship. You aren’t just marrying a man you are marrying his family and culture as well.

  • Boogerhead

    @A_Lee @ErikaHarada I have to disagree about the Roman Empire prizing blond German women. I think they preferred Swedish soldiers and Swedish soldiers like Heidi Klum and Victoria Silverstedt to true German women. The Germans had a rep for being fair weather underlings and repeatedly showed that they would turn on a Roman at the first sign of weakness. This goes for Italians as well who prefer other nationalities of Blondes including Blonde German Jews like Uma Thurman to Blonde German women.

  • Boogerhead

    @A_Lee @ErikaHarada correction: Swedish women like Heidi Klum (despite her German citizenship – she has Viking fingers like Uma Thurman)

  • Boogerhead

    @ErikaHarada I think white is the default but familiarity breeds contempt as was my case growing up in a predominantly white world. Anyway, I crossed paths with a Cantonese American who was married to a Black woman and had adorable daughters but seeing my ethnicity, he instantly got chippy and steered his kids away in case I might be racist towards them. I still think that it is a gender thing where the male regardless of race advocates the partner as being good enough. Anyway, third party pressure is no match for true love. If my true love who is also Chinese was instead Puerto Rican or gasp, Negrito! I’d still be under Cupid’s thumb. It’s a force of nature thing but a lot of those couples look more like True Morons and not True Love. With the white male ‘ships, how many are “fish love” where the minority partner loves what the validation does for them instead for the other person who happens to be white. I don’t think true love can be understood, it has to be experienced and then all these arguments are moot.

  • Boogerhead

    @A_Lee What if he ended up with a clueless Asian American who intellectually is incapable of raising her kids in a culturally enriched manner? What did Deng Xiaoping say? White cat, black cat, it don’t matter as long as it catches mice. A lot of China hands are nonChinese. It doesn’t make them Chinese but good grandparenting can do wonders if you really want them to inherit the best of the Old World. I would prefer my kids to find true love who happen to be Chinese also but if I had found True Love with a non Chinese, I would actually dump all aspirations for a Chinese rich upbringing and just go with my spouse’s preference (I’m no Tiger Mother like Amy Chua.)

  • Boogerhead

    @darkmoon @Danny_Ahmed I would never ever subscribe to the belief that pure Chinese looks are inferior to hybrid looks. It wouldn’t matter if my true love was nonChinese or if my kids were to marry interracially. That’s a no for me.

  • Boogerhead

    @SungKim @min I was openly laughed at by a couple of bulky Koreans at the airport in Seoul because I was hanging out with a total stranger of Jewish American descent who was MALE. I did not care because (1) I was having a problem with my flight and the friendliness was welcome and (2) I was being entertained but for the first time, I got an idea of what it must be like if Chinese males didn’t approve of your dating style. I’m surprised other dudes would be critical of Asian men because that rudeness is usually on display to women because women are in a weaker position of power in society. If you had responded in blistering fluent Korean with the aura to back up your verbal aggression, I wonder what would have happened. I know Koreans like to fight (stereotype!) but do they not know how to back down when overpowered? This IS all about power, isn’t it? Not about love because then there wouldn’t be anything to discuss.

  • SungKim

    @Boogerhead @min lol Yes, Koreans are like Italians of Asia and definitely have temper and pride issues… Fighting is pretty common in Korean schools with not much consequences or punishments. So I would just stay away from fights since we know better than to fight. :) But at the same time, they are also known for generocity and kindness, especially when it comes to food (See? We are just like Italians! lol), so please give them a chance. :)

    And Koreans and Japanese reaaaally like to pick on weaker/different people. I guess it’s a human nature in a way and happens anywhere around the world, but what lacks in Korea and Japan is consequences and punishments that exist in most of the advanced countries.

    If a upper class man sets your soccerball on fire with gasoline and cigarette in the middle of gym class, he should be punished or even expelled as a consequence, right? (This happened to me when I was in middle school in Korea.) Although such action would be followed by punishment in most advanced countries like U.S., it would be simply over-looked in Korea…

    Japan is the same way, they even have an old saying, “If a nail is stuck out, it gets hammered.” And they have a special word for bullying, “ijime,” which is a serious social issue in both countries.

    Same problem with racism. Koreans would see people in different skin color and pick on them just because it stands out like a stuck out nail, and they love to hammer stuck out nails. And there is really no consequencor punishement for such actions.

    In America, although racism exists, racist comments and actions get criticized and often punished because it’s politically incorrect. And we are taught that way in school.

    But in Korea, there is really no such education program about racism because Korea is not that diverse. Chance of interacting with someone of different skin color in person is slim to none for many Koreans in their life time. So they never really have racial issues and don’t think it’s necessary to spend money and time educating kids about it in school.

    Sometimes I get shocked when I hear some really nice, kind hearted Korean people making racist comments about other country people… I don’t think they are really racists with bad intentions… I think they just don’t know better due to lack of education and interest in this topic.

    Now that Korea is becoming more and more exposed to the rest of the world, it’s about time they start educating people about racism in Korea.

  • Boogerhead

    @SungKim @Boogerhead @min Could be worse. Koreans still have not committed crimes against humanity in multiple countries so their reputation is still on the positive side.

  • Ed

    @Boogerhead @SungKim @min The US has evolved passed overt racism i.e lynching, slavery, whites only establishments but I assure you racism is alive and well in North America. If someone can give me a case where a white man was swarmed and lynched by Koreans or Japanese during peace time I’m all ears. Racism here is conducted covertly. It’s influenced and internalized. It’s probably the only place in the world where someone can be racist against there own race and it not only be accepted but expected. Now that’s something Hitler would be proud of!!

  • A_Lee

    @Boogerhead Well, and what if she’s a crack addict and psychotic? Obviously, don’t marry her then! My argument assumes ceteris paribus.

    Perhaps I should have clarified what I meant by “preserving culture.” The bar set by immigrant Chinese parents for preserving culture, perhaps in the American view, astonishingly high. Culture, in their view, is not using chopsticks, watching some Korean soaps with subtitles, and saying a couple sentences to grandma. We’re talking about true cultural fluency. I have yet to see one ABC who is truly fluent in Chinese. Not “I got 800 in SAT II Chinese” fluent, but actually fluent, as in “I can read a Chinese newspaper with zero difficulty and can hold conversations in on non-trivial topics, such as politics or philosophy” fluent. I’m not saying such a person can’t exist, but they must be exceedingly rare.

    It’s hard to imagine that even old China hands can impart that level of cultural fluency on their children. The only non-Chinese I know who speak Chinese with real fluency are the children of missionaries, who grew up in a Chinese environment, and even self-identify as Chinese (when they’re little, anyways).

    Why mention this? Because, again, it’s not about racism. It’s about the cold, hard reality that if they allow their children to “marry out”, their grandchildren will not have the same level of cultural fluency, and that pains them, to know that there will be a cultural distance between themselves and their child’s family.

  • A_Lee

    @SungKim Yes, I agree. But it’s not my place to judge how a parent expresses love, and they do love their child, without question.

  • A_Lee

    @Boogerhead Swedish? The Romans never made it that far. Not that it changes anything…the point was about white female attractiveness, particularly the blonde hair of Germanic, Scandinavian, and Slavic peoples, was attractive to the dark-haired Mediterranean Romans.

  • SungKim

    @Ed @PamelaNRed @David06 @A_Lee Yes, I also agree, Only I do believe the Chinese parents are being racist, lol. Anyway, even if thats the way his parents wish to “love” their son, it seems selffish to me to express it by denying him the woman he loves (regardless of race).

  • SungKim

    @A_Lee If their way of expressing love for their child is ignoring his perfectly fine life decision that makes him happy, ignoring the existence of his fiance and insulting her by trying to bring new girl to replace her, there is something wrong with their love. Frankly that doesn’t seem like love at all. It sounds and looks more like issues with their nationalism and pride.

  • SungKim

    @Ed @Boogerhead @min Yes, there are definitely racists in America. My girlfriend and I deal with them and their unpleasant comments constantly on her video blog. But despite the existence of racism, what I love about America is that people fight against it and educate people to understand and accept cultural and physical differences. :)

  • SungKim

    @Ed @Boogerhead @min Yes, racism is alive and well in North America. However, its not just white people who are apart of North American racism in (Modern) America, Asians are included in that as well. Not nearly to the extent that “white” colonials were in the 1800’s but in (modern) times, lets be honest. Also I think you reference to Hitler is a little extreme and pointless. Hitler would be discusted at the thought of my relationship (interracial) being allowed anywere, likewise he would also be discusted by a person who “critisized” their own race. Hitler advocated the unconditional love of ones own race. Thats not to say that he didn’t hate non-Arian races, but he still suggested other races should praise themsleves. lol

  • EmilyElaineDzenowski

    @PamelaNRed @A_Lee I agree with Sung, if your parents really love you, they wouldn’t deny you the person you want to live the rest of your life with. How cruel.

  • EmilyElaineDzenowski

    @Ed @mike_le Well, I haven’t seen any posts like that on 8Asians site so far. I guess you are seeing something that i’m not. “Is it really part of the Asian American experience to find your own people unattractive or less attractive than non-asians?” Uh o_O no, and what does that have to do with Asians dating interracially? Your comment suggests you are of the opinion that Asians who date non-Asians find themselves unattractive. An opinion which is really silly in my eyes.

  • EmilyElaineDzenowski

    @DMan @PamelaNRed The reason why the Gossellins had issues was not because Jon forgot his heritage. They had issues because they both had personality problems. Also I don’t think you have any more or less pride if you date within your race as the minority in a perdominatly white or multiracial society. In fact, I look at it completely opposite. I think it takes a very secure person to step out of the boundaries of race in that situation. If you are a minority and still hold up your heritage in an interracial relationship, then I think you have more than enough pride to go around.

  • EmilyElaineDzenowski

    @mike_le @ErnieHsiung Lol, What would you consider to be a non-shallow post? lol, please do tell.

  • http://www.merchantsmirror.com darkmoon

    @EmilyElaineDzenowski @PamelaNRed @A_Lee @SungKim Devil’s advocate here, but if you take a more eastern perspective, the parents’ are… “loving you.” It’s preventing you from making a mistake.

    If you view it from a more westernized culture, you’d think that they’re not really loving you in doing that, but I think there’s more to it.

    I’m not certain my parents’ were completely open to the fact that I was going to date and marry outside my race, but then again, they knew I wouldn’t listen even if they told me. That’s the “American” part of me. If you want to call into Asian heritage though, I would have done whatever they asked, as the dutiful son. Especially being the eldest, and oldest.

    That’s part of the reason I write. I feel that there’s many people out there that go through, went through, or are going to go through the same types of conflicts. While I can’t tell them what to do, I just share my experiences and hope that others read it and don’t feel as alone as I did trying to deal with the culture clashing. Call it what you will, but some folks/friends are fair weather and when push comes to shove… some people are left all by themselves. :)

  • Ed

    @EmilyElaineDzenowski @mike_le What does it have to do with Asians dating interracially? Uh lots!! Whether people admit it or not, physical attraction is the single most important factor in initiating and forming pair bonds. Is it the only thing? Of course not but for many it becomes the first and primary consideration when deciding on whether or not to allow or pursue a romantic relationship. Not being able to see your own racial features on a member of the opposite sex as attractive or finding racial features that are vastly different then yours more attractive, is in many cases a form of internalized racism. It’s quite ridiculous and short sighted to believe that every interracial relationship (or even most) do not involve some sort of inferiority-superiority dynamic based on race and often culture and ethnicity.

    http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/0/9/4/3/p109437_index.html

  • http://www.merchantsmirror.com darkmoon

    @Ed @EmilyElaineDzenowski @mike_le For every study you find where it weighs on whether there’s a complex involved, there’s a study that says it doesn’t. Same as anything. But all sociology studies will point true to physical attraction being the big frontrunner in relationships but I would say that Ed is spot on with physical attraction. Only my personal experiences here, but I can say that if you don’t find a girl attractive, then the chances of you getting with them or asking her out are probably slim. Obviously there are things that can make up for moderate physical attraction like confidence and other traits, but it has a lot to do with looks. Men are especially stimulated visually.

  • SungKim

    @darkmoon @EmilyElaineDzenowski @PamelaNRed @A_Lee I understand the concept of parents preventing their son from making a “mistake” of marrying an outsider because they “love” him.

    But in the particular story mentioned above, that mistake has already been made. He’s already engaged to a white girl. And I’m guessing he’s happy with her, hence the engagement. Preventing him from making a mistake is one thing, but forcing him to break up an engagement is another. Are they gonna continue to bother him even after he’s married? They don’t seem to care whether he’s happy or not as long as the tradition is kept.

    I mean what’s the purpose of this tradition? How did it begin? If it was created to keep the blood line pure, what’s the benefit of it in today’s world? Inbreeding? If it was created so that eldest son stays with his parents after marriage and takes care of them, is it still necessary in America today, where people can work way past their retirement age and receive social security and other retirement benefits? I’m not saying we shouldn’t take care of our parents. I’m simply saying time has changed. Is it reasonable to continue this tradition despite the lack of needs today?

    From logical perspective, keeping the tradition for the sake of tradition can often be problematic. Certain traditions disappear for a reason:

    For example, in Korea, cutting your hair used to be considered a despicable moral sin because it’s part of your body that’s given to you by your parents. Then Japanese invaded Korea and forced them to cut their hair. That’s how the tradition of never cutting your hair disappeared. However, if that tradition was so morally right and reasonable, why didn’t Korean people go back to that tradition after Japanese people left? It’s because Korean people found shorter hair more convenient, practical and reasonable for the time they were living in. So that tradition vanished for good, and no one considers cutting hair morally wrong anymore.

    Maybe it’s time the tradition of keeping the blood line pure vanishes for good.

  • http://www.merchantsmirror.com darkmoon

    @SungKim @EmilyElaineDzenowski @PamelaNRed @A_Lee Could have been a last ditch effort. ;) It’s happened before, and I’ve seen it.

  • EmilyElaineDzenowski

    @Ed @EmilyElaineDzenowski @mike_le Ed, I don’t agree that dating a “copy” of yourself should validate the amount of “love” you have for yourself or your race. Yes, physical attraction is an important factor in initiating and forming pair bonds. I can understand to an extreem degree the “internalized racism” of a person who does not find their own features attractive on a member of the opposite sex. However I disagree that a person who has a preference for people with vastly different features then themselves would qualify as “self-racist”. This is because its possible for a (secure) person to love their own features while at the same time appreciating the beauty of featutres that are unlike their own. For example, I don’t have to look at the masculine version of myself every morning to verify how wonderful my race is. Contrastingly, I think its ridiculous and short sighted to label EVERY (or even MOST) interracial relationships as being the product of Inferiority-superiority based on race, culture, and ethnicity. To believe that you can label every or the majority of one group based on a single study which has been refuted by similar studies is a little farfetched in my opinion.

  • Ed

    @EmilyElaineDzenowski @mike_le That’s the default response isn’t it? It is of course a theory but it’s interesting how much evidence there is to support it. I would like to see the credibility of those that refute studies on internalized racism as there many more than the one I posted that backup the claim. I’ve found that counter arguments are almost always visceral as opposed to pragmatic as in the study I posted. As I’ve said before I don’t disagree with appreciating the beauty of another race (as I to am in an interracial relationship). What I do refuse to accept as normal is when an exclusion or a strong preference is developed for one race or races over your own. As I’ve said when you are born you are naturally attracted to those of the same race. Something positive happens from infancy to adulthood that helps you appreciate the beauty in other races. At the same time, and in many cases, something negative happens in that same time period that makes you depreciate the beauty in other races and in the case of Asians (both male and female) often that race is their own. The interracial dating/marriage figures involving Asians globally would be considered an anomaly by most statisticians. From your view this is a sign of increasing tolerance and progress, but people feel no need to look any deeper.

    Anecdotal, case and point. I know a very attractive female ex-model who was possibly the biggest asiaphile I’ve ever known. She’s tall (5’8), slim (around 115 lbs), long blond hair and blue eyes and strictly dated Asian guys. Even attractive white male models that she worked with did not interest her. When I asked her about it, she said she didn’t know why, and that’s she’s “always been that way”. When I talked to a childhood friend of hers about it, it suddenly made sense. One thing is she hated her family growing up (left home when she was 14), and her white neighbor to the left of her tried to abuse her. Her only solace was her neighbors to her right, who happened to be a Chinese family. She would apparently spend as much time as she could at their house and grew very close to the family and even developed a crush on the son. She’s beautiful and yet the subtleties of this complex are evident in her actions. She’s now married to an Asian guy, and has a beautiful little girl. This is obviously and extreme case of both negative and positive experience shaping ones opinions but the result is quite apparent.

    Ultimately, the argument is a moot point because western society preaches a false sense of control over destiny, called choice. To ignore the fact that you prefer Caucasian features over Asian features due to racially biased influences, is completely in your right. Same right I have to call you on it. And quite frankly no one is willing to accept that they are racist or at the very least have racial prejudices and tendencies. If you believe you’re honest with yourself and are fine with the race based preferences you have, then carry on. All I ask is that you don’t pat yourself on the back and say you’re a fair and open-minded individual when in fact you’re not and that when you have children you ignore your own biases and teach them true impartiality and equality.

  • David06

    @Ed @EmilyElaineDzenowski @mike_le I guess “true impartiality and equality” should apply to every other facette of attraction? Am I being prejudice or have an “ism” because I prefer a smart girl over a dumb girl? Or a girl with curves over a girl who doesn’t have curves? Or a tall girl over a short one? What I’m trying to say is that what I sense from your last paragraph is that having a choice in your dating life is unfair and/or is bias. Am I wrong?

  • Ed

    @TinaTsai I wish people would abandon the concept of race :(

  • Ed

    @Boogerhead @darkmoon @Danny_Ahmed Agreed. Two of my best friends are happas and I can assure they are no lookers. One clearly looks more white and the other clearly looks more asian. I’ve heard mumblings of dating woes (or lack of) from both. As is common with happas, both strongly prefer white women and I’ve been trying to get them to be a bit more open to other races.

    I reject the idea that babies would some how look better if they had caucasian features. I’ve heard the same thing mentioned about black people. Perpetuating this “opinion” as many would claim it is, sets a horrible precedent.

  • http://www.merchantsmirror.com darkmoon

    @Ed @EmilyElaineDzenowski @mike_le I’m amused by your example here because above, you say that basically people choose a preference with race. Yet the example below only shows that environment changes her, not that instinct has anything to do with it.

    In fact, I would probably go with the fact that all people are created perhaps first and foremost with some natural instinct, but are driven by environment. Thus, you’ll have the whole “wolf boy” concepts and mixed children, adopted, and so on to choose based on the environment they’re raised in.

    The only part here that I dislike is probably the end of the paragraph. It sounds like what you’re saying is that no one should pat themselves on the back including yourself, and that there is no such thing as a fair and “open-minded” individual. If that’s the case, then I totally agree with the comment. But the last sentence also says that you want others to teach them “true impartiality and equality” as if you know what that is. BUt based on the fact that there is nothing fair, nor is there no truly open-minded individual, there is no such thing as “true impartiality and equality”. As human beings, we can’t be impartial, nor equal regardless of how much you want it to be.

    Unless you happen to make the claim of being non-human and superior, in which case….

  • http://www.merchantsmirror.com darkmoon

    @Ed @Boogerhead @Danny_Ahmed Of what… the fact that happas could look like Daniel Hessey? haha. The point of it was sarcastic. Don’t know why you would think that people wouldn’t come in beautiful and ugly types regardless of race.

  • Ed

    @darkmoon @EmilyElaineDzenowski @mike_le Ahhh Darkmoon there you are. Yes I agree that the person you become is a combination of nature and nurture and not one or the other. And just so you know, I never pat myself on the back, but I always try to be equal and impartial as best I can when dealing with other humans. All humans. I find most people on this thread seem to not really want to try at all. My last statement is to everyone that believes that they are fair and open minded yet are accepting of the normalcy of their own racial biases. Those characteristics can never truly exist together in the same person at the same time. It’s an imperfection.

    Your statement of “…can’t be impartial, nor equal regardless of how much you want it to be.” concerns me deeply. Humanity is accepting of it’s imperfections. We all have them in abundance, but part of being a human is the constant need to learn, to improve oneself, to, in essence strive for perfection. Your statement is tantamount to “giving up” because there will always be racism, racists and negative influences. Maybe it’s just me, but I refuse to do this. When I hear people say “I only date or don’t date _____” or “I think ______ are the best looking” I always ask them why they think that. Most people squirm and throw out all the race based generalizations that they’ve been taught (in their environment obviously). If it makes them think and if it opens their mind up for an instant then perhaps they can take the opportunity to improve themselves as well.

    Funny that my arguments throughout this thread, for many I presume, translate to some sort of cry of superiority. My message is simple, recognize your own racial biases and preferences and remove all racial bias and racial preference from your heart and mind. Easy? No of course not, especially with the environment we live in. Environment teaches you what to wear, what to eat, where to bank, where to live, what to drive and believe it or not, has a strong influence in who you are attracted to and love. If everyone thinks this is a scream of superiority then I guess hear me roar. RAAWWRR!!

  • Ed

    @darkmoon @Boogerhead @Danny_Ahmed Thought you might have been joking. Can never tell. Too many people actually believe it!!

  • http://www.merchantsmirror.com darkmoon

    @Ed @EmilyElaineDzenowski @mike_le I think that’s a good answer. The only reason I asked is because you seem to say… one must strive for no racism and yet, there seems to be this answer of… if you date outside of your race, then you’re part of this inferiority-superiority complex. That’s why I asked. It gives mixed signals.

    I don’t think my statement is giving up, as much as realizing the flaws of human nature. It’s ridiculous to think that we’re going to become perfect, of which true equality would mean that there is no bias at all, and thus no preference. It’s like trying for that impossible goal of becoming selfless. People try, and they keep doing it… even though we’re really just not built for it. But I do commend the trying part.

    Personally speaking, yes, I believe there always will be negative influences, and that’s not “giving up” as you perceive it. It’s a difference of opinion. You believe one way, as I do another, and thus those are negative forces against what we both believe. Thus, if we feel differently, then others will also which means you’ll never erase hatred, racism, etc. If it does happen ever, then I’ll stand corrected at that moment, but the cynic in me falls towards the … human beings won’t win that battle.

    Again, your message above is great. I think it’s the mixed signals others are reading from things like “inferiority-superiority dynamic based on race and often culture and ethnicity.” That’s where I basically stand gawking because you say that you’re in an interracial relationship, so do you not also fall into that category? I believe that’s where those of us that don’t understand you are coming from. I would imagine the above answer is all the clarification I need, but perhaps others would like to hear more in that.

  • David06

    @darkmoon @Ed @EmilyElaineDzenowski @mike_le I’m having a problem with preference=bias. If someone prefers a girl with curves over someone who doesn’t have curves, is that bias? If I prefer brunettes over red heads is that bias? Or if I prefer a tall girl is that bias also? I know the context is about racial preference but wouldn’t someone apply it to other faucets?

  • http://www.merchantsmirror.com darkmoon

    @David06 @Ed @EmilyElaineDzenowski @mike_le Depends on which definition of bias you’re using, but bias does cause preference. Not necessarily equates to it, but they are linked.

    Just take a look at the synonyms of bias: predisposition, preconception, predilection, partiality, proclivity; bent, leaning.

    If you have a partiality towards brunettes over redheads… is that not preference? The word bias can be used in both favorable and unfavorable terms, but for the most part it just means that there’s influence of which you do and are influenced to a degree by environment to get to that disposition.

  • Ed

    @David06 @darkmoon @EmilyElaineDzenowski @mike_leHere is my issue with the term “preference”. People often use it, especially in the context of race, to in fact state their exclusions. I prefer vanilla ice cream, but I very much enjoy chocolate or rocky road once and a while. The reason I argue against preference is because it’s often misused and I personally feel it doesn’t have any bearing on the suitability and the physical, emotional and mental attractiveness of an “individual”.

    It’s very common to use example of preference for other features and characteristics to argue the other side of the debate. However, none of those attributes are necessarily related to race and I’ll state again they do nothing to determine the qualities of an individual. If a man states he only dates red heads (this screams fetish by the way), presumably a girl who maybe naturally blond and colors her hair red (and for arguments sake looks natural) would suddenly be attractive to this same man. If you were to say “well I only like natural red heads”, then out of interests sake I would feel the need to ask why. David06, I’m assuming if you prefer brunettes but you found an attractive blond, you wouldn’t deny yourself the opportunity of dating her. Replace hair color with race and you will understand where I’m coming from. The “tall” attribute is an interesting one because it’s one I’ve often heard personally from Asian women. Despite trying too hook them up with a few Asian guys who were well over 6’2 their racial preferences/exclusions became evident. They were only interested in tall white guys. As I said in a previous post, I have my own preferences when it comes to dating and I can assure you none of my preferences exclude anyone based on race.

    I recommend watching so SunKim’s girlfriends videos. The one he’s got posted on this forum is quite relevant to what we are discussing. It talks about preference and fetish. She clearly has a preference for Asian guys as she states, but finds men of other races physically attractive as well. It’s not “perfect” (no racial preference in my mind is perfect), as me and darkmoon discussed before but the world most definitely would be a better place if people took a similar view as heres.

  • Ed

    @SungKim @Boogerhead @min I’d like to believe that’s true but I don’t think it necessarily is. In fact, I believe we’ve come to accept certain types of racism as “normal”. The stereotypes held, perpetuated and believed to be true by people (of all races) across North America is astounding. It has infiltrated our psyche to the point that we’re completely unaware of our own racial tendencies.

    Case and point, Malcom Gladwell, the highly educated author of Blink!, was horrified that when he took the Intuitive Association Test (IAT) it showed he had an unconscious prejudiced against blacks and a moderate automatic preference for whites. In fact he took it multiple times with the same result. Scary right. Even more interesting is that he is black himself. Are you so sure that your preferences are truly your own or based on pro-white influences?

    Combine that with instances of obvious racism i.e. Arizona’s race based profiling law, the US’s anti-Chinese platforms and I say North Americans have a looooong way to go. I guess, like you said people in Korea or Japan are more on the overtly racist side. I heard someone say something like, they would rather face 5 overtly racist dudes then one covertly racist women, because at least you know where you stand. It’s actually easier to fight against overt racists then covert racists. Just start swinging!!

  • http://www.merchantsmirror.com darkmoon

    @Ed @David06 @EmilyElaineDzenowski @mike_le This is about where Ed and I differ in opinions some. He says that none of his preferences exclude anyone based on race, whereas I would argue that he makes a conscious effort to exclude it, but as a human being, he still takes it into account on some sub-level. ;)

    Regardless though, Ed’s argument for preferences related to race make sense if you view it from the same perspective as he does. I don’t see it as such, thuuuus… I’m not Ed! lol.

    Here’s the difference. Taking Ed’s example of attractive blondes and brunettes, if I had the opportunity to date Beyonce, I probably wouldn’t. It’s not that she’s not attractive. Very much so. But there are other qualities about her that are not really for me. You could also say the same about silicone implants (vs the coloring of hair). There are certain features that attract some, and not others. Is it necessarily race driven? Not at all. I probably wouldn’t date most if not all of the Real Housewives of “pick your city”. But I would say that the overall determination of dating/relationships has some sub-level of race. Which Ed (assumption here, so correct if wrong Ed) would rather eradicate altogether, and I just accept as a normal part of human nature but think that Ed’s ideal world would be pretty good if we could do that. lol.

    I’ll also disclaimer that my ideals are somewhat biased since I’ve been burned bad before due to my own naivety in thinking people don’t consider race when they most definitely do (they just refuse to say it because it’s not socially acceptable these days). But again, opinion of only one, and not all.

    While I’m at it, I’ll also say that I’ve actually never met an Asian face-to-face that claimed the dilution of line type argument I stated above. Most of those hide behind screen names. I think Asians are much like Southerners in that regards where they’ll talk, but it’s not to your face (generalization of Asians and Southerners in play here obviously). And really. Don’t make me say, “Bless your heart.” ;)

  • Ed

    @darkmoon @David06 @EmilyElaineDzenowski @mike_le You pretty much have it. I respect your point of view, though different from mind and there is merit to it. However, I would argue that when it comes to race and attraction I don’t put much of a conscious effort. In fact, I find it incredibly easy to see women as sexy regardless of race and question why others have such a hard time doing the same. That isn’t to say I don’t see visual differences I just don’t equate these visual characteristics as more attractive then another other.i.e skin color and I certainly don’t let it stop me from finding out the kind of music she likes to listen to, whether she likes to read or whether she enjoys travelling etc

    Your example of Beyonce is accurate and fitting. You first and foremost acknowledge that she’s is physically attractive (as do I) but you evaluate your compatibility with her based on qualities that are independent of the fact she’s black. Despite incriminating yourself as biased, I don’t necessarily see it in your example. Many people would not even allow themselves to proceed past the first stage. This is all I ask that people do when it comes to love. It first comes from recognizing true physical beauty (sexiness per se) in any and all races. I think this is the hardest part, which is why I harp on it so much. We simply do not recognize other forms of physical beauty and we readily accept that which is fed to us in our environment. What’s you’ve gotten past that first stage you explore their personalities, their nature, their interest. Sad that this is a such a strange a novel idea.

  • Danny_Ahmed

    I hope I’m not ruining anyone’s fantasy, but think about this.

    While every racial, cultural or any other group of people have their unique features, eventually we all are going to grow old, wrinkly and a little less attractive in a dozen ways or so.

    Pretty much, I’m saying don’t get too hung up over looks.

  • Boogerhead

    @A_Lee @Boogerhead The Swedes travelled to find prosperity and became valued members of the Roman Empire’s military. No fans of the Germans then either of them even back then.

  • Boogerhead

    @darkmoon @A_Lee @ErikaHarada Yes, I’ve seen interviews of multigenerations of Russian and Chinese marriages usually Chinese husbands and the Chinese in China seem to be fine with these marriages and the children well regarded. I guess there is no threat of losing one’s Chineseness if your marriage and child rearing is going on inside China’s borders. Mixed marriages are okay in China but overseas Chinese will wince as if they are evaporating when one of their descendants marries nonCHinese. I think true love has veto power so we are really discussing the many perhaps sadly, the majority of marriages that are not true love but affectionate best port in a storm – when it goes on between two people of the same heritage, then we just don’t care and consider them compatible and their own private business. When it is a mixed marriage that is not true love, then we have something to say about it. It just draws our attention. I know someone who married a White guy after a long relationship with a fellow Chinese that didn’t end in marriage. I stood up for her until I met him and it really was not a love marriage but they invest in real estate together, ambitiously raise happa kids with intense coloring together (pretty smug about it too) and generally are growing old, losing their bloom together, I think a lot of unhappy Asian wives would rather have married a white guy instead and given themselves a social boost at least in terms of their children’s social future and self confidence as well as their own. I know of at least one wife of a Chinese who regrets not taking the other fork in the road. She doesn’t want love but for her, her current marriage is a dead end of raising small children and no potential for glamour and ego feeding.

  • Boogerhead

    @darkmoon @A_Lee @ErikaHarada Oh, yeah, and the Saving the Best for Last white husband stares at her female relatives. Classy.

  • Boogerhead

    @A_Lee I’ve met Happa kids who Chinese are better than most Chinese Americans. And Vera Wang raised her kids with a Chinese housekeeper and cook on the premises. I think their Chineseness like ours becomes an issue of privacy like heirloom jade jewelry passed on to each new generation. Depending on how you are raised, do you treasure your jade bracelet or do you throw it over for an overpriced Cartier. Either way, you probably don’t wear your heirloom out in public. That’s how I am going to raise my kids – privately fluent. I hate dealing with competitive child raisers who learn music and art for all the wrong reasons. I’d rather deny knowing anything and let them disdain me and mine then participate in shallow culture grabbing.

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