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• Blamster

  Wow, this is outrageous. Thanks for writing about this and I hope you will help us follow how the series turns out. This amounts to historical and pop-cultural genocide, not to be taken lightly.

• dcj125

  @Blamster “This amounts to historical and pop-cultural genocide”

  I didn’t think of it that way, but you make an interesting point. Reminds me of the story some years back about backlash the Japanese got for leaving out the atrocities of WWII against Asia in their history books.

  I’m not very knowledgeable about the time period, but on the other hand, if the show were to accurately reflect the working conditions and how the Chinese were actually being treated, then the show might seem racist or xenophobic. What would be the greater injustice? Rewriting the story to pander to modern-day political correctness or leaving out the characters entirely?

• moye

  @dcj125@Blamster I don’t think including the Chinese into the story would count as pandering to political correctness. Wouldn’t it provide a more honest and realistic look at the time period, especially if Chinese people were present and active during that era?

  As Tina has pointed out in her previous posts, they’ve been clearly left out in the fictionalized portrayal of the past. So who’s to say we’re pandering when pop culture hasn’t been accurate in the first place?

  I think this situation is most upsetting because of what the show creators said: they knowingly omitted an ethnic group and knew they were going to be questioned about it. Their reasoning, according to the original article, is still vague aside from the whole premise being “so American” and that’s why. (And really, how does that even make sense?)

  On a different note, I’m not a huge fan of Westerns but I did sit through Deadwood and was glad to see a whole Chinatown built there. Even True Grit included Asians for like 5 seconds.

• dcj125

  @moye I didn’t mean that including Chinese characters would be considered pandering, but rather, presenting them in ways that aren’t realistic to the times.

  I imagine that back in 1865, the Chinese immigrants were probably called racial slurs to their face and behind their backs. I also imagine that they were probably cheated and/or abused in some way. Now what if the show had included Chinese characters, but those characters were treated with respect and given glamorous plotlines in an effort to “dumb down” the harsh realities that they really faced? That’s the pandering I was referring to. I’m mostly just thinking out loud though.

  You’re right about being upset at the show creators, but I don’t think it was a decision based on race, but rather money. Asian people don’t really fit in the romantic image of the wild West, and I don’t really know any Asians interested in it either. The studio probably figured they would lose more viewers including Asians than they would gain had they included [Asians].

• moye

  @dcj125 You bring up an interesting point. I think having Chinese characters who were abused and cheated and also abused and cheated others (because this is the wild west we’re talking about) would be the most realistic portrayal. But you’re right; this would probably only make the APA community protest more.

  It’s important to distinguish the difference between pandering and inclusion. I hope more writers and producers realize this.

  And I think a lot of Asians aren’t interested in Westerns because we’ve been excluded. It’s a part of our country’s history yet we’re made to feel it has nothing to do with us. That’s why I don’t like it. Then again, I’m a sucker for British period pieces so what can I say.

• Danny_Ahmed

  @moye@dcj125 I think from what I read about this show, it is suppose to be based primarily on the Union Pacific part, which is building in from the East. If that’s the case, than most of their realistic characters would not be Chinese or Asian.

  There should be a few though, because Chinese migrants did go all over the country besides the West Coast.

  If they were really accurate, there should also be a lot of Irish-Irish American themes involved as a lot of the workers and stories concern them (the Irish).

• Riggs

  Lisa De Moraes’ article in the Washington Post was slanderous, and is the source of the completely untrue rumor that the Chinese were excised form the show. She completely distorted comments made by the creators of the series so as to create the impression of whitewashing and stir up controversy where none is warranted. If you wish to be angry about something, be angry about that. Your racial sensitivities are being exploited by a callous and dishonest journalist.

  As you rightly point out, there were no Chinese workers involved in the building of the Union Pacific railroad, which started in Nebraska, and is the subject of this series. The Chinese railroad workers were in California at the time, on the other side of the country. The question the Gaytons were answering then was, “Why focus on the Union Pacific instead of the Central Pacific?” When Joe Gayton provided the answer that the story of the Union pacific was “so American” he was not referring to exclusion of the Chinese (whose story is very American also), but was referring solely to the fact that the Central Pacific consisted of a travelling, multicultural tent city. In other words, the idea of a town (comprised of migrants and freed slaves no less) on the move, literally dragging civilisation across the country and scarring the earth, is an apt location to tell a story about America as it existed then and today: as a capitalistic melting pot of enormous destructive potential, teeming with violence, even as it stands at the forefront of progress. It was a perfectly good answer to a seemingly honest question that has been distorted so as to depict the series as racist when it plainly is not.

  By the way, I have seen the pilot episode and the Chinese are acknowledged. It would be impossible to tell a story about two different events happening on opposite sides of the country, but I have no doubt that as the series progresses the competition that existed between the Central and Union pacific railroads will be featured more prominently. This will inevitably consist in part of further reference being made to the contributions of Chinese workers.

• mwei

  disclosure please: do you work or is PR for the show in any shape or form?

  hope the show will address in the future why the Chinese were left out of the photograph when the golden spike was put down.

• mwei

  @dcj125 “Asian people don’t really fit in the romantic image of the wild West, and I don’t really know any Asians interested in it either.”

  I’d like to ask for some clarifications on that statement please.

  “romantic image of the wild west?” as in shooting Injuns and Mexicans and lynching Chinese coolies?

  yeah, I’m no fan of that type of “USA! USA!” propaganda either.

  BTW, if you ever saw that crappy Canadian tv movie “Iron Road” it was supposedly made for a Chinese audience and financed by Chinese investors in China because they were interested in the Chinese experience in America.

  and what was the plot of that one? focus Chinese men mistreating Chinese women and one of the prostitutes finding her white savior.

  this was the same thing in Robert Duvall’s “Broken Trail” and countless other Westerns that had Chinese in them: conveniently ignoring the racist treatments against Chinese and playing up the yellow peril of the males while saving the few Chinese women.

• mwei

  @Danny_Ahmed “it’s multi-ethnic diverse because Irish weren’t thought of as white back in the day”

• mwei

  I’ve never seen the movie, but apparently even William Hung was in “Chinaman’s Chance” with Lorenzo Lamas.

  self promotion: if any millionaire is reading this blog and wants to produce a movie about Chinese American railroad workers after the railroad was built: I have the perfect script for you. ^_~

• moye

  @mwei what @dcj125 means is that Asians aren’t a part of the idea that white people conquered the unclaimed territories of the West. it’s romantic because it’s a frontier life of living dangerously without laws, a past where it was just white vs. indians. I think it adds to the notion that America = Caucasian. Adding Chinese people (or even Filipinos, depending on the area) would just complicate the legend.

• http://tinabot.blogspot.com/ TinaTsai

  @mwei I’m not a producer, just a fellow writer, but can I read the script? Even just a part. I’m super interested. ^O^

• http://tinabot.blogspot.com/ TinaTsai

  @mwei Here here. The Chinese Americans continue to be marginalized in a time period of American history in which they made a massive contribution to this great nation.

• reader

  the idea that the showrunners “excised” any chines involvement is based on people trying to create controversy and misconceptions about the railroad. The Gayton quote is taken out of context and never suggested that Chinese immigrants were not part of an American story. His quote is describing why he decided to write a story about Hell On Wheels, the true life tent city that followed the Union Pacific Railroad. He says that the story of Hell On Wheels struck him as very American, which is part of why he decided to make a show about it. There are no Chinese American immigrants in the show because there were exactly zero Chinese American Immigrants in Hell On Wheels. This is well documented. they never decided between making a show about Chinese and non-Chinese influenced railroads ; they found an interesting subject matter and decided to make a show about that. If the show stays on the air long enough for the town Hell on Wheels to reach the Central pacific, then yeah it would probably feature the Chinese immigrants. But since that doesn’t happen until the very end of the building of the railroad, it probably wouldnt happen until the very end of the show. It is important to be wary of the way media portrays Chinese Americans and other minorities. But attacking projects that are guiltless only makes your deserved outcry for a voice appear shallow. Don’t believe everything you read.

• http://tinabot.blogspot.com/ TinaTsai

  @Riggs I’m sure you’re right about the sensational journalism going on here, but I’d love to see actual video of Joe Gayton’s response to the questions so I can judge for myself what’s going on. Link us!

  Hell on Wheels looks like it’s going to be the Old West TV series of the decade, and I have a feeling I’m going to love it. Conceptually, visually, it looks amazing.

  However, it is disappointing that a major Western TV series based on the Transcontinental Railroad just doesn’t focus on the Chinese. Clearly, there are various angles to tell the story of the railroad, and writers have a creative right to choose the angle they want to go at. At the same time, I wonder how many scripts from the Chinese American perspective were rejected and this series with the least possible Chinese focus possible was the one to be funded and fully produced and backed.

  Hell on Wheels looks like cutting edge high quality historical story telling, but it still stays within the safe confines of majority rules.

  I don’t think it’s enough to say “The Chinese were mentioned” or “In the show, they’re acknowledged and we know they’re out there.” The key point here is yet again, they are on the fringes of yet another Old West tale, marginalized like they always have been in history, an “Oh yeah, they were there, too” afterthought. I’m not saying we should scrap Hell of Wheels as a racist show, I’m sure it’s not and is probably going to be awesome, but it just goes to show you, who’s stories are being told and who’s are not.

  There’s a bottom line, and the Chinese Americans are never allowed anywhere near it. I understand, but I don’t accept it as okay.

• http://tinabot.blogspot.com/ TinaTsai

  @reader The writers have a right to tell the story from whatever angle they want, but isn’t it sad that on yet another Old West show, isn’t it interesting that of all the angles a major Western TV series could go from, this fully backed show is being told from the perspective that involves the LEAST Asian Americans possible?

  This is not finger pointing at the writers or the producers. Writers have creative freedom and producers have bottom lines, but I think we need to zoom out and realize that we’re not going to see an entire Western TV series dedicated to the Chinese American or Asian American experience in the old West, a time when they came to this country and literally built half of it from the bottom up.

  Whether intended or not, the overall media message is “The Chinese American story is not important enough to America”.

  They get to walk in the background or be mentioned, but they aren’t the main characters or the focal point of the plot.

• http://tinabot.blogspot.com/ TinaTsai

  @dcj125@moye From the westerns I’ve been watching, everyone fits into the romantic image of the wild West EXCEPT the Asians. Everyone else is represented in depth, Native Americans, African Americans, Irish Americans, Mexican Americans…everyone EXCEPT the Asian Americans who, if lucky, get to fill in the background walking buy carrying laundry or laying down railroad tracks. At least in the Magnificent 7 series, there was a whole episode dedicated to the Chinese American railroad workers.

  I admit, I was not crazy about Westerns myself until about a year ago when I suddenly came up with my little novel series concept Cowboy Ninja. If anyone cares, here’s how it went down. For practically my whole life, I have been totally into ninjas and martial arts warriors and the Asian legend, history, and lore surrounding them. I was sitting around one day, pondering over my Asian American identity, thinking about how the Asian martial arts warrior is such a stereotype in America and around the world. Then I thought about the iconic stereotype of Americans–the cowboy. Then I thought, since I’m Asian American, marrying the two stereotypes, I would be a Cowboy Ninja. So I’ve been having just a blast working on this story, and I hope if it gets read and enjoyed by the Asian American community, it will get them interested in the Old West the way I have developed a passion for it, and I also hope it awakens people to the amazing role in the Old West that Asians Americans have played.

  Who knows if this story’s going to go anywhere, but I know at least one person will have fun with it–me ^O^ I’m easily self-amused.

• http://tinabot.blogspot.com/ TinaTsai

  @TinaTsai @mwei lol I meant
  *hear hear

• Danny_Ahmed

  Putting this Hell on Wheels story aside for the moment.

  This is just a general comment and one that’s probably been said many times. Forgive me if this sounds like a cliche.

  How come we don’t just make our own AA movies, films and shows?

  They may not be blockbusters of any kind, but it’s a start. We can get the investors, and we have the talent in the actors, production team, etc. The transcontinental railroad is just one out of many stories of Asians in America from that time period. Chinese, Japanese and Filipinos were also farmers, fishermen, miners, sharecroppers in the south, doctors, soldiers, etc. All over the country. They had plenty of drama to deal with from racial intermarriages (this time it’s Asian males with non-Asian females), prejudice, violence from others and within their own community. Some fought back, physically and through civil action.

  Then there were some who live fairly normal lives for that era.

  http://www.butteamerica.com/fareast.htm

  I read about a Chinese family that grew up in Butte, Montana in the late 1800s-early 20th century. It sounded like they went through just as many struggles and live relatively decent as other “American” families of that generation had.

  We can do it. We don’t even have to sugarcoat or be too “P.C.” with the stories, because they’re real.

• Blamster

  @Riggs If the Washington Post article is misleading then that writer has a serious integrity problem. At the end of the day I’ll have to reserve comment until the show is done airing and compare that to history.

• Blamster

  @Danny_Ahmed If you want to get to work on something you can count me in to lend a hand! Usually people cite the lack of a target audience as why it can’t be done, or why they won’t do it. But I think that’s a chicken and egg thing, so I’m game.

• Blamster

  @mwei same as my reply to Danny Ahmed. If you ever want to get to work on something that fairly portrays AAs as Americans, count me in to help out in whatever way I can.

• http://tinabot.blogspot.com/ TinaTsai

  @Danny_Ahmed I was thinking the same thing.

  We do have a thriving Asian American Film community in this nation, but of course it all comes down to money and who controls it, and there are a lot of reasons why Asian Americans don’t get a lot of attention in films and what not.

  But hey, 3 out of the top 10 youtube channels are Asian Americans. Considering we are just 5% of America and and even smaller percentage of the world population, that’s quite a mark to make.

  I’m always down to support API Film, the good, the bad, and the ugly. In the end, only by producing a lot of content can we both flood the market as well as develop our ability to produce such media.

• reader

  @TinaTsai While I am constantly saddened by the lack of Asian Americans represented on American TV, I don’t think its fair to spin this as someone’s decision to go for the PC choice. Everyone involved here seems to have decided to write a story about a group of people in a place where there happened to not be any Asian immigrants. Now, maybe at some point a writer or production company presented this Network or Studio with a script about the Central Pacific railroad that centrally featured the asian american effort, and maybe that script was just as good as the one that eventually got made, adn maybe at some point it was passed on, and maybe the reason was that the studio or network decided that it wouldn’t sell as well as a similar story with less of an Asian voice, rather than the million other reasons that perfectly good scripts get passed on every day. But that is alot of assumptions.

  that being said, I do hope this show lasts long enough for the railroads to meet; there certainly is alot of potential n that story for a fresh, historical represntation of the Asian American influence on America in the early west.

• http://tinabot.blogspot.com/ TinaTsai

  @reader

  Somehow whatever this perfect storm that keeps resulting in “LESS ASIANS IN WESTERNS” keeps happening again and again. That’s a lot of evidence that can’t be swept under a rug of ambiguity. Especially when 3 of the top 10 Youtube channels are Asian American. Considering we’re only 5% of the US population and only a tiny fraction of the world population, clearly there’s an audience out there for Asian American media.

  Also, again, I’d love to see video of the show writers’ actual responses to the question about why Chinese don’t play a major role. I’m going off of the direct quotes that the journalist cited in my post above had transcribed, but it definitely didn’t sound right to me so far. So again, if anyone can link us to the actual interview, that would be great. From the article it sounds like it came from some press session? Like I have already written above in my post, maybe it came out all wrong or maybe it came out more right than intended. So I’m not spinning, I’m just responding.

  When asked “Why not Chinese Americans?”

  Answer: “It just wasn’t the story we were inspired to tell.”

  Fair enough.

  Saying this: “[O]ne of the things that really caught me is, just, it’s just so American, the idea of a tent city that packs up and moves, you know.” as a response to “Why not Chinese Americans?” just sounds really bad.

  But I’ll say it again, writers have their creative freedom, and i totally understand that they just chose this point of view to tell the tale. I think the angle the writers of the Hell on Wheels series took on this historical tale is, as the NorCal folks say it, hella interesting. However, I’ve been watching a hell of a lot of Westerns lately, and so far, all different types of minority and majority groups are represented in depth EXCEPT Asian Americans DESPITE the important role they played in the Old West.

  I too hope it lasts long enough for the two railroads to meet. Talk about the story getting even more complicated and intriguing!

  Personally I’d like to see Leland Stanford portrayed for the oppressor of Chinese Americans he really was so that the Asian American community would stop blindly pushing their children towards a school named after a man who made his fortunes on the dying backs of their forefathers and then turned his own back on them when it was politically convenient.

• mwei

  got it: the Oklahoma! version then

• mwei

  @TinaTsai sounds like KungFu the legend still continues… without David Carradine?

  any excerpts for your captivated readers?

• mwei

  @TinaTsai likewise, I got no problems with the exclusion if they’re honest about their motivations.

  I’m just fed up with the rationalization and lies to justify the real reason behind the exclusion…

• mwei

  @Danny_Ahmed lots of other websites got some very insightful analysis on the way the system is setup up.

  I think Teddy Zee famously quipped to Justin Lin: for Asians who are supposed to be good at math, you sure are stupid for continuing to make Asian-American films.

  http://youoffendmeyouoffendmyfamily.com/am-i-retarded-for-making-asian-american-films/

  I personally think it’s the quality and accessibility, as Philip maybe tongue-in-cheek tells it:

  http://youoffendmeyouoffendmyfamily.com/an-open-letter-to-china-on-its-crackdown-on-%e2%80%9coverly-entertaining%e2%80%9d-tv-programming/

• mwei

  @Blamster are you are filmmaker? there are tons of them here in lalaland.

  people are looking at youtube as the future, and like Tina says: it’s remarkable the number of Asian youtube stars.

  as far APA indie filmmaking: there’s too much shenanigans and politics there to get into…

• mwei

  @TinaTsai I saw plenty of PBS documentaries on “the American Experience: the Chinese story” – they were really good at curing my insomnia.

• mwei

  @reader like most US WW2 movies, it’s kind of like leaving out the Gold, Juno and Sword beaches – the story is just incomplete.

  or that Spielberg and Hanks had to go back for the companion series “The Pacific”

• mwei

  @TinaTsai I will always continue to believe that chop suey is more American than apple pie.

• mwei

  @Blamster are you in lalaland as well? email me dude. =)

• mwei

  @TinaTsai actually, I kind of lied: it’s only a detailed treatment right now.

  but you can email me: weimeng at yahoo

  I kind of wrote it in response to Clint Eastwood’s “Unforgiven” and some racial commentary about Chinese coolies in that movie…

  but I think my other story on Chinese gangsters in the bay area has way more potential than the post-railroad story…

  looking forward to a private convesration. ^_^

• http://tinabot.blogspot.com/ TinaTsai

  @mwei It is because it was invented here…and for drunk Gold Rush miners nonetheless. ^O^

• http://tinabot.blogspot.com/ TinaTsai

  @mwei I’m trying to find where to watch this on PBS or netflix or whatever ^O^

• http://tinabot.blogspot.com/ TinaTsai

  @reader Here’s a good book to get some info about the Chinese American situation. http://www.amazon.com/Chinese-America-Narrative-History/dp/0670031232

• reader

  @TinaTsai I’m aware that Chinese immigrants were the dominant labor force of the Central Pacific railroad and made an often ignored impact on our country… but this show just happens to not be about that. Boy meets world was another show that wasn’t about that. Also the flinstones. It’s fair to demand more representation of Asians in American media, but it’s not fair to target a particular show because your own misconceptions lead you to think that Chinese immigrants were present in the area that is the show’s subject, when in actuallity they were not.

• mwei

  in other words: Asians can do the work and white writer-producers can take he credit. >_<

• http://tinabot.blogspot.com/ TinaTsai

  @reader Maybe some clarification is required.

  Writers have a right to their creative freedom. Being a writer myself, I definitely understand that.

  First of all, as you acknowledged, when people think of the transcontinental railroad, they think Chinese Americans (I’m glad they do), and even the writers and producers of Hells on Wheels themselves know this. So they knew this question was going to be asked. However, their answer was kind of disturbing.

  When asked: “Why not Chinese Americans?”

  Answer: “It just wasn’t the story we were inspired to tell.”

  Fair enough.

  Saying this: “[O]ne of the things that really caught me is, just, it’s just so American, the idea of a tent city that packs up and moves, you know.” as a response to “Why not Chinese Americans?” just sounds really bad. But you know, I also understand I’m going off of someone else’s transcript of their response, so I would love to see actual video of their response to the question so I can better understand the situation. I also know that maybe it came out all wrong, but it’s also possible it came out more right than intended.

  Second, this TV series is clearly a Western, a genre that I totally LOVE right now, and it will be judged by, with, and against this genre. Hell on Wheels is probably going to be awesome and cutting edge, but it’s still rehashing stories that have already been told and following the usual tradition of Westerns leaving out Asian Americans. I’m not saying they need to bend over backwards and add Asians into the story. If it doesn’t fit the story, it doesn’t fit. But it still reinforces the status quo of marginalizing Asians in tales of the Old West. So don’t add Asians and know that that is reinforcing a status quo tradition. Don’t get defensive about it, just say “It just wasn’t the story we were inspired to tell.”

  Flinstones and Boy Meets World aren’t Westerns or historical fictions, so I think they are extremely irrelevant to the conversation here. This is not a “Hey let’s see what random show we can point a finger at and pick on.” Transcontinental Railroad goes hand in hand with Asian American history, so scrutiny about Asian American representation is warranted and to be expected. I’m sure the writers are big boys who can handle the heat.

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