Excited
(Every so often, we here at 8Asians get e-mails asking for advice. Here is someone — let’s call her “M” — asking for advice on how to deal with her intruding grandmother-in-law.)
Could you and your fellow 8Asians contributors help me out? I have a question about Korean culture. First, a little background…
I am Canadian-born-and-raised Chinese, married to a Canadian-born-and-raised Korean.
Last Thursday, I was home alone with our two kids, eating lunch downstairs in the basement. I heard the front door open and close upstairs, and then some thumping sounds, like someone taking off their shoes. I thought my husband had come home to get something and then head off to work again so I didn’t pay any attention. But then the noises continued and I wondered if someone had broken in to rob my house.
I went upstairs to the main floor to investigate and saw some pairs of unfamiliar shoes in the front foyer. I heard some voices upstairs on the second floor so I climbed the stairs to find that my husband’s grandmother had not only let herself in, but she’d brought a couple of friends and were giving them a tour of our house. They were poking around the bedrooms when I found them and they were surprised and embarrassed that I discovered them. I was completely shocked but, being Asian, greeted them politely and let them finish showing themselves around. After they got their fill of our house, they all left together.
I later learned that my grandmother-in-law had called our house but nobody answered (I hadn’t heard the phone ring because I was in the basement). She was visiting (from Toronto, which is 1 hour away from where we live) and staying with her daughter (my husband’s aunt) who lives 2 streets away from us and who has a key to our house in case of emergency. Anyway, thinking no one was home at our house, my grandmother-in-law decided to help herself to the emergency key and let herself and her two friends in for a look-see.
The house was a complete disaster, by the way, because I have two little preschool-aged kids and zero time to clean. I was completely humiliated that these strangers were looking at my dirty/messy house and absolutely infuriated at my grandmother-in-law.
Needless to say, my husband got an earful when he got home. He did tell his grandmother that what she did was wrong, but then he tried to explain to me that it’s normal for her to do what she did because it’s normal in Korean culture to do stuff like that. He said that Korean grandmothers go into their children’s and grandchildren’s homes all the time and that I need to be more understanding.
Now, I have witnessed and heard about my grandmother-in-law violating boundaries in MANY cases. It seems a habit for her. This was the third time she violated a boundary involving me, but I let the first two incidents slide. This was the biggest violation and pissed me off the most. I think she’s just an individual who behaves badly and her relatives excuse her behaviour, using Korean culture as the excuse.
My husband has told me at least four or five times that this issue of her coming into our house without permission is not really an issue because it’s normal in Korean culture. I disagree (like I said before, I think she just plain old misbehaves), but don’t know enough Korean people (who aren’t related to my husband) to ask, “Hey, does your grandmother make unauthorized visits to your house and show her friends around while she’s there?”
So, sorry for this long email, but can you help me? I would very much like to know if what my husband’s grandmother did is normal for Korean culture, or if she is just a good example of bad behaviour.
So yeah, rummaging through the stuff and property of your offspring: cultural thing or is she batshit insane?
(Flickr photo credit – and apologies — to Sukanto Debnath)
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As an 1st gen AZN, i can really relate to this issue.
I think its not a korean culture specific thing. Most Asian grannies from the old country are really old school about that kind of thing. Even the parents. In my experience, the more fobby= the less personal boundaries they feel thats between them.
whenever my parents and grandparents visit, they always rearrange the things in my house to make it "better" Personally, i had to finally sit down and have a serious talk with the folks and let them know my feelings-in a non offensive way of course. I mean in their eyes, they are "helping " you and have the right to touch your things, since they raised you etc,
I think the best way to explain(the way that worked for me) is sit down and speak in a soft lowered voice, while staring directly into their eyes and start off " i really appreciate how much youve helped me blah blah....i love you so much blah blah... but in the future can you discuss with me when you want to visit/ touch my things? so we can do it together as a family and make the decision together...blah blah.
And then after they say "yes/okay" give them a small gift that you bought (and wrapped) and say something like "oh,... and this is for you grandma/mum/dad cause i saw it and thought you might like it/its your
favourite blah blah.
this is MY secret method and has worked on my fobby parents and my real OLD SCHOOL FOBBY grandma.
Try it, it really works!
As an 1st gen AZN, i can really relate to this issue.
I think its not a korean culture specific thing. Most Asian grannies from the old country are really old school about that kind of thing. Even the parents. In my experience, the more fobby= the less personal boundaries they feel thats between them.
whenever my parents and grandparents visit, they always rearrange the things in my house to make it "better" Personally, i had to finally sit down and have a serious talk with the folks and let them know my feelings-in a non offensive way of course. I mean in their eyes, they are "helping " you and have the right to touch your things, since they raised you etc,
I think the best way to explain(the way that worked for me) is sit down and speak in a soft lowered voice, while staring directly into their eyes and start off " i really appreciate how much youve helped me blah blah....i love you so much blah blah... but in the future can you discuss with me when you want to visit/ touch my things? so we can do it together as a family and make the decision together...blah blah.
And then after they say "yes/okay" give them a small gift that you bought (and wrapped) and say something like "oh,... and this is for you grandma/mum/dad cause i saw it and thought you might like it/its your
favourite blah blah.
this is MY secret method and has worked on my fobby parents and my real OLD SCHOOL FOBBY grandma.
Try it, it really works!
This is a bit late, and you may not need it anymore, but being a first-generation Korean gal with a very open family, I thought I'd put in my two cents.
Honestly, her behavior is not common Korean from what I could see. Maybe because your husband grew up with her and the other members, to him this is normal. It's not. Well, at least not in my family. We are very open and close-knit family, but when we visit, we give a phone call and make sure it's okay with the other family members before we do. We do have an open-door policy because we're family, but we don't abuse it-even with the open door policy, we call each other before going over.
While what she did is totally not kosher, being around Korean adults, I know that once they are set in their ways, it's hard for them to change. You can talk calmly to your husband and grandma-in-law about it, but you may just have to be gracious and forgive this and other repeat offenses. It'll make for a happier home/family life for you.
This is a bit late, and you may not need it anymore, but being a first-generation Korean gal with a very open family, I thought I'd put in my two cents.
Honestly, her behavior is not common Korean from what I could see. Maybe because your husband grew up with her and the other members, to him this is normal. It's not. Well, at least not in my family. We are very open and close-knit family, but when we visit, we give a phone call and make sure it's okay with the other family members before we do. We do have an open-door policy because we're family, but we don't abuse it-even with the open door policy, we call each other before going over.
While what she did is totally not kosher, being around Korean adults, I know that once they are set in their ways, it's hard for them to change. You can talk calmly to your husband and grandma-in-law about it, but you may just have to be gracious and forgive this and other repeat offenses. It'll make for a happier home/family life for you.
All right, then. It sounds like the overwhelming consensus is to just let it go. I will heed the wise counsel of the 8Asians community. Thanks for your input.
Jeff: I realize that my response to you may have sounded bitchy. I'm sorry if that's the case, it was not my intention to sound or be that way. I appreciate your positive input and empathy.
Amyable: It sounds like we may have the privilege of being the children of abnormal Asian relatives, in that ours consider others' boundaries before acting. Perhaps this is why I was so offended - I'd never before experienced anything like this.
Catherine: Thanks for your post. Just to clarify, she wasn't given a key. She took the key that was given to her daughter, whom it was clearly explained to that it was only to be used for emergency purposes. If we had actually given great-grandma a key I don't think I would have been so upset. In any case, I like your advice.
Ernie: The photo and caption combination still cracks me up. You are a comedic genius. Thanks again.
All right, then. It sounds like the overwhelming consensus is to just let it go. I will heed the wise counsel of the 8Asians community. Thanks for your input.
Jeff: I realize that my response to you may have sounded bitchy. I'm sorry if that's the case, it was not my intention to sound or be that way. I appreciate your positive input and empathy.
Amyable: It sounds like we may have the privilege of being the children of abnormal Asian relatives, in that ours consider others' boundaries before acting. Perhaps this is why I was so offended - I'd never before experienced anything like this.
Catherine: Thanks for your post. Just to clarify, she wasn't given a key. She took the key that was given to her daughter, whom it was clearly explained to that it was only to be used for emergency purposes. If we had actually given great-grandma a key I don't think I would have been so upset. In any case, I like your advice.
Ernie: The photo and caption combination still cracks me up. You are a comedic genius. Thanks again.
As an 1st gen AZN, i can really relate to this issue.
I think its not a korean culture specific thing. Most Asian grannies from the old country are really old school about that kind of thing. Even the parents. In my experience, the more fobby= the less personal boundaries they feel thats between them.
whenever my parents and grandparents visit, they always rearrange the things in my house to make it "better" Personally, i had to finally sit down and have a serious talk with the folks and let them know my feelings-in a non offensive way of course. I mean in their eyes, they are "helping " you and have the right to touch your things, since they raised you etc,
I think the best way to explain(the way that worked for me) is sit down and speak in a soft lowered voice, while staring directly into their eyes and start off " i really appreciate how much youve helped me blah blah....i love you so much blah blah... but in the future can you discuss with me when you want to visit/ touch my things? so we can do it together as a family and make the decision together...blah blah.
And then after they say "yes/okay" give them a small gift that you bought (and wrapped) and say something like "oh,... and this is for you grandma/mum/dad cause i saw it and thought you might like it/its your
favourite blah blah.
this is MY secret method and has worked on my fobby parents and my real OLD SCHOOL FOBBY grandma.
Try it, it really works!
As an 1st gen AZN, i can really relate to this issue.
I think its not a korean culture specific thing. Most Asian grannies from the old country are really old school about that kind of thing. Even the parents. In my experience, the more fobby= the less personal boundaries they feel thats between them.
whenever my parents and grandparents visit, they always rearrange the things in my house to make it "better" Personally, i had to finally sit down and have a serious talk with the folks and let them know my feelings-in a non offensive way of course. I mean in their eyes, they are "helping " you and have the right to touch your things, since they raised you etc,
I think the best way to explain(the way that worked for me) is sit down and speak in a soft lowered voice, while staring directly into their eyes and start off " i really appreciate how much youve helped me blah blah....i love you so much blah blah... but in the future can you discuss with me when you want to visit/ touch my things? so we can do it together as a family and make the decision together...blah blah.
And then after they say "yes/okay" give them a small gift that you bought (and wrapped) and say something like "oh,... and this is for you grandma/mum/dad cause i saw it and thought you might like it/its your
favourite blah blah.
this is MY secret method and has worked on my fobby parents and my real OLD SCHOOL FOBBY grandma.
Try it, it really works!
I think it might be better not to deal with this as a cultural issue and instead think of it as first and foremost an exercise in picking your battles and setting realistic boundaries. As other posters have noted, understanding the context behind your great grandmother-in-law's actions is helpful when dealing with her, but at the same time I don't think this kind of behavior is limited to Korean culture. I think everyone who is married has had boundary issues with their extended family, regardless of their background. In your case, your great grandmother-in-law probably figured she had an open invitation to your house because she was given a key. I get the feeling that she brought close friends and probably didn't stop and consider that you'd think of them as strangers and be extremely uncomfortable even though they are good buddies of hers. I think you are within your rights to ask her to give you a call before she stops by, even if she has a key. Being Chinese-American, I understand and respect the "elders come first" idea, but I don't think having your husband request that nicely would be disrespectful.
I think it might be better not to deal with this as a cultural issue and instead think of it as first and foremost an exercise in picking your battles and setting realistic boundaries. As other posters have noted, understanding the context behind your great grandmother-in-law's actions is helpful when dealing with her, but at the same time I don't think this kind of behavior is limited to Korean culture. I think everyone who is married has had boundary issues with their extended family, regardless of their background. In your case, your great grandmother-in-law probably figured she had an open invitation to your house because she was given a key. I get the feeling that she brought close friends and probably didn't stop and consider that you'd think of them as strangers and be extremely uncomfortable even though they are good buddies of hers. I think you are within your rights to ask her to give you a call before she stops by, even if she has a key. Being Chinese-American, I understand and respect the "elders come first" idea, but I don't think having your husband request that nicely would be disrespectful.
I'm first generation Korean and I'm confused about other comments above. My parents nor any other family member would ever come into my house without checking in with me first. I totally agree that the grandmother's intention was to probably "show off" the house because she was proud. My parents often want to "show off" all kinds of stuff related to me but again, would never think of coming into my house without letting me know first (notice I don't say "getting my permission" because really, culturally, I wouldn't be able to refuse).
I'm first generation Korean and I'm confused about other comments above. My parents nor any other family member would ever come into my house without checking in with me first. I totally agree that the grandmother's intention was to probably "show off" the house because she was proud. My parents often want to "show off" all kinds of stuff related to me but again, would never think of coming into my house without letting me know first (notice I don't say "getting my permission" because really, culturally, I wouldn't be able to refuse).
I would have to agree with others about this being minor in the overall scheme of things. Although I'm not Korean, (my family is Chinese), we've had major boundary stepping issues. One time I needed to go to the emergency room (and mind you my parents were only visiting from across the country), they essentially took over at the hospital, leaving my other half to wonder what force of nature had struck. I don't think I saw my other half for more than 5 minutes for the entire 5 or 6 hour session at the hospital (which included minor foot surgery).
I could be wrong, but my guess is that your grandmother-in-law wanted to show off what a nice house you had to her friends. It may have backfired on her, but I'm sure that was her intention. Showing off how well kids have done is one of the few joys I think elders in Asian culture have (and of course they have to do it in a very deprecating way - see "The Joy Luck Club")
I would have to agree with others about this being minor in the overall scheme of things. Although I'm not Korean, (my family is Chinese), we've had major boundary stepping issues. One time I needed to go to the emergency room (and mind you my parents were only visiting from across the country), they essentially took over at the hospital, leaving my other half to wonder what force of nature had struck. I don't think I saw my other half for more than 5 minutes for the entire 5 or 6 hour session at the hospital (which included minor foot surgery).
I could be wrong, but my guess is that your grandmother-in-law wanted to show off what a nice house you had to her friends. It may have backfired on her, but I'm sure that was her intention. Showing off how well kids have done is one of the few joys I think elders in Asian culture have (and of course they have to do it in a very deprecating way - see "The Joy Luck Club")
is there such a thing as personal boundaries in Asian cultures? I've had my fair share of in-family battles with regards to such small things as permissions and such - this I would let go.
is there such a thing as personal boundaries in Asian cultures? I've had my fair share of in-family battles with regards to such small things as permissions and such - this I would let go.
I don't even know if it's a Korean thing as I think it's just a crazy Asian parental thing. Back when I was living 10 minutes from my parents, I would come home to find furniture re-arranged.
I don't even know if it's a Korean thing as I think it's just a crazy Asian parental thing. Back when I was living 10 minutes from my parents, I would come home to find furniture re-arranged.
Someone wisely told me that when you marry someone, they become your family, and your current family (i.e., parents, grandparents) become an extension of that. The house you and your husband built with your two children is your home, and you are fully within your boundaries to make the decisions you feel are right. Your grandmother-in-law, however well-meaning she is and however much what she did is part of Korean culture, should not override what you feel is best for your home and family. In her home, she makes the rules. In your home, you do.
Someone wisely told me that when you marry someone, they become your family, and your current family (i.e., parents, grandparents) become an extension of that. The house you and your husband built with your two children is your home, and you are fully within your boundaries to make the decisions you feel are right. Your grandmother-in-law, however well-meaning she is and however much what she did is part of Korean culture, should not override what you feel is best for your home and family. In her home, she makes the rules. In your home, you do.
korean culture is that elders get totally respect, so she in her mind is making a statement that she is proud of her family, and wants her elder friends to see her family in respect. she means nothing to harm, but to show love. I been married 29 years to a korean, and lived in Korea, and my mother-in-law is the best. She is on my side all the time, yet don't push the issue or it could come back to haunt you. Again, she loves you, and is so proud, and has so much pride, Go to the library and study up. best of luck, and prayers, goodness, and kindness goes a lot further than the stress of today material things.
korean culture is that elders get totally respect, so she in her mind is making a statement that she is proud of her family, and wants her elder friends to see her family in respect. she means nothing to harm, but to show love. I been married 29 years to a korean, and lived in Korea, and my mother-in-law is the best. She is on my side all the time, yet don't push the issue or it could come back to haunt you. Again, she loves you, and is so proud, and has so much pride, Go to the library and study up. best of luck, and prayers, goodness, and kindness goes a lot further than the stress of today material things.
A pack of pit-bull guard dogs are a great way to encourage old ladies to respect your boundaries.
A pack of pit-bull guard dogs are a great way to encourage old ladies to respect your boundaries.
Oh yeah, letting yourself in whenever you want - totally Korean. That's why I haven't given my mother a key to my apartment - she would pull stuff like this all the time. She had the keys to one of my previous apartments and I would occassionally come home to find things moved around and laundry missing. I never got bothered by the surprise visits, just the stealing of laundry. My mother has never fully gotten the hang of washing machines so she inevitably destroys one or two things every time she does a load.
The inviting friends over part does cross a boundary. I don't think that is normal.
As hard as it may be to swallow, you might want to let this go. Sounds like your grandmother-in-law is pretty set in her ways. Plus, given that she doesn't really live very close by it's not like you have to tolerate her behavior all that often. My advice, let this go. Consider it the crazy behavior of an eccentric, old lady. Not worth causing unnecessary family tension and strife over something so minor. So what if a few old people saw your dirty house? I'm pretty sure that when your grandmother-in-law passes away, your husband would love to have just one more chance to find her snooping around in some corner of your house where she shouldn't be.
Oh yeah, letting yourself in whenever you want - totally Korean. That's why I haven't given my mother a key to my apartment - she would pull stuff like this all the time. She had the keys to one of my previous apartments and I would occassionally come home to find things moved around and laundry missing. I never got bothered by the surprise visits, just the stealing of laundry. My mother has never fully gotten the hang of washing machines so she inevitably destroys one or two things every time she does a load.
The inviting friends over part does cross a boundary. I don't think that is normal.
As hard as it may be to swallow, you might want to let this go. Sounds like your grandmother-in-law is pretty set in her ways. Plus, given that she doesn't really live very close by it's not like you have to tolerate her behavior all that often. My advice, let this go. Consider it the crazy behavior of an eccentric, old lady. Not worth causing unnecessary family tension and strife over something so minor. So what if a few old people saw your dirty house? I'm pretty sure that when your grandmother-in-law passes away, your husband would love to have just one more chance to find her snooping around in some corner of your house where she shouldn't be.
Wow. I am amazed at the quick response. I am the person who sent in the question and, Ernie (and 8Asians), thank you so much for helping me. I appreciate this immensely.
Jeff, to answer your question, my husband's grandmother doesn't live in the same city as us. She was only visiting her daughter, my husband's aunt, who lives minutes from our house. So she's not really "around". Also, she hardly speaks any English and I don't speak Korean so I don't think it's a realistic scenario for her to come help me out. Plus, I don't have great feelings toward her after what she did so I'm not dying for her to spend even more time around me, even if it meant my kids would see their great-grandmother more. Thanks for trying to find something positive out of this whole thing, though.
8Asians, I love the photo you put up to go with the post - it totally cracked me up! Thanks for making me laugh about this for the first time since it happened. You guys are the best.
I hope I'll get some enlightening answers to my question!
Wow. I am amazed at the quick response. I am the person who sent in the question and, Ernie (and 8Asians), thank you so much for helping me. I appreciate this immensely.
Jeff, to answer your question, my husband's grandmother doesn't live in the same city as us. She was only visiting her daughter, my husband's aunt, who lives minutes from our house. So she's not really "around". Also, she hardly speaks any English and I don't speak Korean so I don't think it's a realistic scenario for her to come help me out. Plus, I don't have great feelings toward her after what she did so I'm not dying for her to spend even more time around me, even if it meant my kids would see their great-grandmother more. Thanks for trying to find something positive out of this whole thing, though.
8Asians, I love the photo you put up to go with the post - it totally cracked me up! Thanks for making me laugh about this for the first time since it happened. You guys are the best.
I hope I'll get some enlightening answers to my question!
If she had visited by herself, it would've been ok, IMO. But giving her friends a tour of the house? Umm, that's a no-no.
If she had visited by herself, it would've been ok, IMO. But giving her friends a tour of the house? Umm, that's a no-no.
I can't comment on the Korean culture part, but in some ways, it might be nice to have a grandmother around. The Wife and I were the youngest in our families and got to spend very little time with our grandmothers. Also, since she is around, can you put her to work in some useful way? You say you have little time, maybe she can help with cooking, or better yet, maybe she should help clean. Also, not many kids get to spend time with their great grandmothers - perhaps look at this as an opportunity?
Then again, I feel for you. My Wife would go absolutely nuts (I shudder just thinking about it) if this happened in our house.
I can't comment on the Korean culture part, but in some ways, it might be nice to have a grandmother around. The Wife and I were the youngest in our families and got to spend very little time with our grandmothers. Also, since she is around, can you put her to work in some useful way? You say you have little time, maybe she can help with cooking, or better yet, maybe she should help clean. Also, not many kids get to spend time with their great grandmothers - perhaps look at this as an opportunity?
Then again, I feel for you. My Wife would go absolutely nuts (I shudder just thinking about it) if this happened in our house.
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