Excited
Princeton University’s Art Museum has a new exhibition called “Outside In”, a showcase to modern Chinese Art. There are six artists featured, and the exhibition suggests that Chinese Art does not need to come from someone who is Chinese ethnically. What’s interesting is that only 3 of the artists are from China, and a fourth is ethnically Chinese, but did not grow up or reside in China, and the remaining two are Vietnamese and Caucasian (described as a New York Jew).
This of course brings up an interesting question of what makes Chinese art, Chinese? Is art any less Chinese because it isn’t produced by someone ethnically Chinese or someone that didn’t grow up in China? Obviously Princeton’s Art Museum is trying to expand the scope of our beliefs by showing neither is a requirement to producing Chinese art. I’ve had Caucasian friends who have told me they thought they were either Chinese in another life, or felt like they should have been born Asian, as it fit their personality, lifestyle, etc. better. Does that qualify someone to claim themselves as Asian?
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hi i just recently found this site and i just want to say that i love it.
its intriguing, asks the right questions, critical, encouraging and all with a good mix of humor
"do you have to be chinese to produce chinese art"
then what is considered chinese art? painting something chinese? painting the great wall of china? if so, then no, that depends on the artist's depiction of the wall
but if you are referring to chinese calligraphy/traditional types of chinese art, then that would require you to learn from a master of that type of art. and that master is most likely chinese,
to be an apprentice of the master would you require you to dedicate you time into the art and culture
-then the question comes up, if a white guy lives in china (with all legal documents) and takes in the chinese culture, is he considered chinese?
if yes
then no you dont need to be "chinese" to produce chinese art
--.. okay ahha i actually am not too sure what i wrote made complete sense. but i just wanted to leave a comment to say that i love this site, it's motive, and your thought provoking entries :)
thankyou
hi i just recently found this site and i just want to say that i love it.
its intriguing, asks the right questions, critical, encouraging and all with a good mix of humor
"do you have to be chinese to produce chinese art"
then what is considered chinese art? painting something chinese? painting the great wall of china? if so, then no, that depends on the artist's depiction of the wall
but if you are referring to chinese calligraphy/traditional types of chinese art, then that would require you to learn from a master of that type of art. and that master is most likely chinese,
to be an apprentice of the master would you require you to dedicate you time into the art and culture
-then the question comes up, if a white guy lives in china (with all legal documents) and takes in the chinese culture, is he considered chinese?
if yes
then no you dont need to be "chinese" to produce chinese art
--.. okay ahha i actually am not too sure what i wrote made complete sense. but i just wanted to leave a comment to say that i love this site, it's motive, and your thought provoking entries :)
thankyou
i think art can one of two things: good or bad.
chinese or not, i think the quaker oats graphic is supposed to be tongue-in-cheek. at least, that's how i interpret it. and if it's a joke, it's pretty funny! therefore, it's "good" art because it elicits a positive reaction.
i think art can one of two things: good or bad.
chinese or not, i think the quaker oats graphic is supposed to be tongue-in-cheek. at least, that's how i interpret it. and if it's a joke, it's pretty funny! therefore, it's "good" art because it elicits a positive reaction.
I have come across art pieces that are remarkably Chinese-influenced, only to realise they were painted by foreigners (artists with non-chinese names.)
Chinese art is very distinctive - can't put my finger on it, but when you see it, you know it. They are distinct even from Japanese paintings.
I have come across art pieces that are remarkably Chinese-influenced, only to realise they were painted by foreigners (artists with non-chinese names.)
Chinese art is very distinctive - can't put my finger on it, but when you see it, you know it. They are distinct even from Japanese paintings.
Hi Kim,
I think you are truly one of the best examples online I've ever seen of a Non-Chinese person (of any heritage, ethnicity, racial group, etc.) who has such a balance, vast understanding and appreciation of Chinese topics, both in Asia and overseas.
I got so tired reading all these websites and blogs, some that supposedly maintained by China or Chinese "experts", but were so filled with extreme, questionable and very degrading comments...both in the English and Chinese languages. Recently whenever I find someone of your caliber online, I have to give some type of kudos for that.
I'm curious whenever Artists create something like this exhibit, are their expressions meant for a particular audience, perspective, or possibly something else. I read a lot of books regarding Modern China written from many perspectives, but even though there seems to be some central viewpoint, especially if it's about major events, it's pretty diverse in opinion throughout the whole picture.
Hi Kim,
I think you are truly one of the best examples online I've ever seen of a Non-Chinese person (of any heritage, ethnicity, racial group, etc.) who has such a balance, vast understanding and appreciation of Chinese topics, both in Asia and overseas.
I got so tired reading all these websites and blogs, some that supposedly maintained by China or Chinese "experts", but were so filled with extreme, questionable and very degrading comments...both in the English and Chinese languages. Recently whenever I find someone of your caliber online, I have to give some type of kudos for that.
I'm curious whenever Artists create something like this exhibit, are their expressions meant for a particular audience, perspective, or possibly something else. I read a lot of books regarding Modern China written from many perspectives, but even though there seems to be some central viewpoint, especially if it's about major events, it's pretty diverse in opinion throughout the whole picture.
@Jeff---you mean actually IN Chinatown? Of course not! Portland's Chinatown at one time was the second largest on the west coast, exceeded only by SF (estimates were as high as 8,000 at its peak in the early 1900's) ---but the grinding racism of Oregon, coupled with the two Chinese exclusion acts, finally caused the complete dispersal of the Chinese, (and consistent with other American west coast Chinatowns, the intention wasn't always to settle and raise families, but to make money, and return as a Big Shot hero in the eyes of the extended family back in Taishan.
Therein is part of the problem---a (nearly) complete disconnect between the new Chinese community (now located east of downtown), and the early trailblazer Cooly labor which built the American west. As is true in other west coast cities the Chinese Consolidated Benevolent Association, traditionally Kuomingtang, represents the Chinese community at City Hall. I personally like the guys in the CCBA, but as I have told them---they are way too polite. My belief is that the grave yard of these early Chinese should be aggressively represented----and honored, And I have written to Metro (the local gov. body involved) ---but I'm just a white guy, married into a Chinese family...
@Jeff---you mean actually IN Chinatown? Of course not! Portland's Chinatown at one time was the second largest on the west coast, exceeded only by SF (estimates were as high as 8,000 at its peak in the early 1900's) ---but the grinding racism of Oregon, coupled with the two Chinese exclusion acts, finally caused the complete dispersal of the Chinese, (and consistent with other American west coast Chinatowns, the intention wasn't always to settle and raise families, but to make money, and return as a Big Shot hero in the eyes of the extended family back in Taishan.
Therein is part of the problem---a (nearly) complete disconnect between the new Chinese community (now located east of downtown), and the early trailblazer Cooly labor which built the American west. As is true in other west coast cities the Chinese Consolidated Benevolent Association, traditionally Kuomingtang, represents the Chinese community at City Hall. I personally like the guys in the CCBA, but as I have told them---they are way too polite. My belief is that the grave yard of these early Chinese should be aggressively represented----and honored, And I have written to Metro (the local gov. body involved) ---but I'm just a white guy, married into a Chinese family...
@Kim: Regarding Portland "Chinatown" - are there actually any Chinese people living there? Last time I was there - I'll admit it was dark - I didn't see any.
@Kim: Regarding Portland "Chinatown" - are there actually any Chinese people living there? Last time I was there - I'll admit it was dark - I didn't see any.
Sounds like Mr. Zhang has a fetish-like obsession with western popular culture, with a little mass Chinese culture thrown in for good measure. Perhaps his use of Mao represents the superficial, mass idolization of the carefully packaged Mao---the only Mao known to Chinese through the Cultural Revolution.
Having not seen the work, thats as generous as I can be.. I hate "Quaker Oats Mao", even without seeing it---and know would still hate it in person. But hey, Zhang is clearly Chinese....even though his art may be a cultural cop out..
This I do know: China has such a rich, even overpowering influence on me when I'm there, I can't imagine not being more influenced by it as an artist. Mr. Zhang, from the powerful landscape of Xinjiang---and a Muslim to boot--how can that not play into his art?
Sounds like Mr. Zhang has a fetish-like obsession with western popular culture, with a little mass Chinese culture thrown in for good measure. Perhaps his use of Mao represents the superficial, mass idolization of the carefully packaged Mao---the only Mao known to Chinese through the Cultural Revolution.
Having not seen the work, thats as generous as I can be.. I hate "Quaker Oats Mao", even without seeing it---and know would still hate it in person. But hey, Zhang is clearly Chinese....even though his art may be a cultural cop out..
This I do know: China has such a rich, even overpowering influence on me when I'm there, I can't imagine not being more influenced by it as an artist. Mr. Zhang, from the powerful landscape of Xinjiang---and a Muslim to boot--how can that not play into his art?
@Kim: Yes, "Quaker Oats Mao" was part of the show. From the article:
Zhang Hongtu, the eldest of the six, improbably anchors the more Westernized end of the spectrum. He was born in 1943 in northwestern China, into a Muslim family, and was educated in Beijing. After a career as a jewelry designer, he emigrated in 1982 to New York, where he still lives.
Besides Quaker Oats Mao, Zhang's contribution includes McDonald's food packaging cast in bronze, a six-pack of blue-and-white porcelain "Coca-Cola" bottles, a full-sized ping-pong table pierced by two Mao silhouettes, and several interpretations of impressionist and postimpressionist paintings.
@Kim: Yes, "Quaker Oats Mao" was part of the show. From the article:
Zhang Hongtu, the eldest of the six, improbably anchors the more Westernized end of the spectrum. He was born in 1943 in northwestern China, into a Muslim family, and was educated in Beijing. After a career as a jewelry designer, he emigrated in 1982 to New York, where he still lives.
Besides Quaker Oats Mao, Zhang's contribution includes McDonald's food packaging cast in bronze, a six-pack of blue-and-white porcelain "Coca-Cola" bottles, a full-sized ping-pong table pierced by two Mao silhouettes, and several interpretations of impressionist and postimpressionist paintings.
So Tim,
Please, don't tell us that "Quaker Oats Mao" was part of the show. Please. Its just such a totally abysmal cliche, a la Andy Warhol ---who's Campbells soup cans were also a cliche----44 years ago..
And no, you can't be a Chinese artist without being Chinese---not even close. (also, you can't be an American artist without being American----and perhaps the best example of that is still the Abstract Expressionists of the 50's and 60's---totally an American movement).
I expect better of the Ivy League, but have been often disappointed in recent years.. Maybe you need to live on the Pacific Rim to have even a clue about Asian issues---but as it turns out, here in Portland, we have plenty of culturally tone-deaf bureaucrats ready and willing to go through "a public process" to select the best, "culturally sensitive art" (under the "1% for the arts" law for public works projects)----in this case---China Town----a major revamping of streets, sidewalks and public places.
The artist they finally selected to craft in granite and steel various "authentic" Chinese street sculptures? ---a guy named Brian Goldbloom. And make no mistake, Goldbloom was up to the craft---his overturned wok, and dragon head (in a choke hold steel collar) were beautifully crafted.
But after a rather stunned, (and typically polite) pause of the local Chinese community, for the first time in Portland's political history (that I'm aware of---as a 30 year observer)---they assembled in outrage ---- the overturned wok representing famine and want---and choking a dragon?? Too bad. Nearly two hundred thousand dollars in 1% funds down the drain----both sculptures were destroyed, since they couldn't be moved..
so do you think the lily white city and regional fathers (and mothers) of Portland have learned their lesson from this?? ----hardly. We are now engaged in a low profile site design controversy for Portland's long dead Chinese---buried separately, of course, from the Whites.
Again, designed by a perfectly liberal white landscape architect, overseen by a perfectly liberal regional government. The architect likes flowering cherries in the Sakura tradition, and thinks they would be lovely in the spring at the Chinese burial site. (suggest all here at 8 Asians Wikipedia Sakura to understand the Chinese perspective---ie--WW2) And, of course, since some mentally ill were buried near the Chinese---it makes perfect liberal sense to elevate them to equal status with the Chinese dead..
So Tim,
Please, don't tell us that "Quaker Oats Mao" was part of the show. Please. Its just such a totally abysmal cliche, a la Andy Warhol ---who's Campbells soup cans were also a cliche----44 years ago..
And no, you can't be a Chinese artist without being Chinese---not even close. (also, you can't be an American artist without being American----and perhaps the best example of that is still the Abstract Expressionists of the 50's and 60's---totally an American movement).
I expect better of the Ivy League, but have been often disappointed in recent years.. Maybe you need to live on the Pacific Rim to have even a clue about Asian issues---but as it turns out, here in Portland, we have plenty of culturally tone-deaf bureaucrats ready and willing to go through "a public process" to select the best, "culturally sensitive art" (under the "1% for the arts" law for public works projects)----in this case---China Town----a major revamping of streets, sidewalks and public places.
The artist they finally selected to craft in granite and steel various "authentic" Chinese street sculptures? ---a guy named Brian Goldbloom. And make no mistake, Goldbloom was up to the craft---his overturned wok, and dragon head (in a choke hold steel collar) were beautifully crafted.
But after a rather stunned, (and typically polite) pause of the local Chinese community, for the first time in Portland's political history (that I'm aware of---as a 30 year observer)---they assembled in outrage ---- the overturned wok representing famine and want---and choking a dragon?? Too bad. Nearly two hundred thousand dollars in 1% funds down the drain----both sculptures were destroyed, since they couldn't be moved..
so do you think the lily white city and regional fathers (and mothers) of Portland have learned their lesson from this?? ----hardly. We are now engaged in a low profile site design controversy for Portland's long dead Chinese---buried separately, of course, from the Whites.
Again, designed by a perfectly liberal white landscape architect, overseen by a perfectly liberal regional government. The architect likes flowering cherries in the Sakura tradition, and thinks they would be lovely in the spring at the Chinese burial site. (suggest all here at 8 Asians Wikipedia Sakura to understand the Chinese perspective---ie--WW2) And, of course, since some mentally ill were buried near the Chinese---it makes perfect liberal sense to elevate them to equal status with the Chinese dead..
Just one additional comment, please note that this was a "MODERN" Chinese Art show. Traditional Chinese art is easier to define, and if someone not Chinese created traditional Chinese art it'd be pretty easy to identify it as Chinese art. But what defines art as modern Chinese? And how can you call it that if the creator wasn't Chinese? I think Princeton called some of these artists creators of Chinese art, because the subject matter was Chinese, like the "Quaker Oats Mao" depicted here.
Just one additional comment, please note that this was a "MODERN" Chinese Art show. Traditional Chinese art is easier to define, and if someone not Chinese created traditional Chinese art it'd be pretty easy to identify it as Chinese art. But what defines art as modern Chinese? And how can you call it that if the creator wasn't Chinese? I think Princeton called some of these artists creators of Chinese art, because the subject matter was Chinese, like the "Quaker Oats Mao" depicted here.
hi i just recently found this site and i just want to say that i love it.
its intriguing, asks the right questions, critical, encouraging and all with a good mix of humor
"do you have to be chinese to produce chinese art"
then what is considered chinese art? painting something chinese? painting the great wall of china? if so, then no, that depends on the artist's depiction of the wall
but if you are referring to chinese calligraphy/traditional types of chinese art, then that would require you to learn from a master of that type of art. and that master is most likely chinese,
to be an apprentice of the master would you require you to dedicate you time into the art and culture
-then the question comes up, if a white guy lives in china (with all legal documents) and takes in the chinese culture, is he considered chinese?
if yes
then no you dont need to be "chinese" to produce chinese art
--.. okay ahha i actually am not too sure what i wrote made complete sense. but i just wanted to leave a comment to say that i love this site, it's motive, and your thought provoking entries :)
thankyou
hi i just recently found this site and i just want to say that i love it.
its intriguing, asks the right questions, critical, encouraging and all with a good mix of humor
"do you have to be chinese to produce chinese art"
then what is considered chinese art? painting something chinese? painting the great wall of china? if so, then no, that depends on the artist's depiction of the wall
but if you are referring to chinese calligraphy/traditional types of chinese art, then that would require you to learn from a master of that type of art. and that master is most likely chinese,
to be an apprentice of the master would you require you to dedicate you time into the art and culture
-then the question comes up, if a white guy lives in china (with all legal documents) and takes in the chinese culture, is he considered chinese?
if yes
then no you dont need to be "chinese" to produce chinese art
--.. okay ahha i actually am not too sure what i wrote made complete sense. but i just wanted to leave a comment to say that i love this site, it's motive, and your thought provoking entries :)
thankyou
I'd just like to say something simpky by reading the title...
I am a young artist. I range paintings to poetry, and i love sketches. And suprisingly, i paint chinese and japanese art, very well actually. No, i don't think you have to be chinese to paint chinese art.
I'd just like to say something simpky by reading the title...
I am a young artist. I range paintings to poetry, and i love sketches. And suprisingly, i paint chinese and japanese art, very well actually. No, i don't think you have to be chinese to paint chinese art.
I'm not really familiar with a lot of the definitions of the different forms of art, but maybe we could use the culinary arts as an example. There are different types of cuisine like Chinese, French, Italian, etc. not just specific ethnic-centered but also very creative ones like fusion, vegan, etc. As far as I'm concerned, one can be an expert or master chef in any of these cuisines without having to be a member of that particular ethnicity or trend (like vegetarian) in some cases. Maybe the cooking world can be applied to the other areas of art.
I understand how some of the caucasians Tim mentions as well as other Asians or anybody feels that their last life, soul or should have been born into another group of people than they currently are. It probably depends on the degree, but I think we all go through such phases of what if and why not. A lot of times, people become excited because of the external layer, like physical looks, food, art, certain traditions, success, etc. However, they may look nice and all, but so many things are universal like family values, educational goals, etc. Culture in general is ever-changing. In the end, it's just a matter of accepting yourself with whatever background we were born in and just live.
I'm not really familiar with a lot of the definitions of the different forms of art, but maybe we could use the culinary arts as an example. There are different types of cuisine like Chinese, French, Italian, etc. not just specific ethnic-centered but also very creative ones like fusion, vegan, etc. As far as I'm concerned, one can be an expert or master chef in any of these cuisines without having to be a member of that particular ethnicity or trend (like vegetarian) in some cases. Maybe the cooking world can be applied to the other areas of art.
I understand how some of the caucasians Tim mentions as well as other Asians or anybody feels that their last life, soul or should have been born into another group of people than they currently are. It probably depends on the degree, but I think we all go through such phases of what if and why not. A lot of times, people become excited because of the external layer, like physical looks, food, art, certain traditions, success, etc. However, they may look nice and all, but so many things are universal like family values, educational goals, etc. Culture in general is ever-changing. In the end, it's just a matter of accepting yourself with whatever background we were born in and just live.
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