Excited
I watched last night’s episode of 30 Rock last night, “Cougars” (Episode “207″). 30 Rock is “a workplace comedy where the workplace exists behind-the-scenes of a live variety show.” I find the show pretty entertaining and I especially like Alec Baldwin’s portrayal of GE / NBC executive Jack Donaghy.
In any case, one of the major plotlines was that Tina Fey’s character Liz Lemon (age: 37, but lied saying she was 29) going on a date with a younger guy in the office (coffee boy, page) (age: 20, but lied saying he was 25).
Here is the dialog when Liz is discussing her situation with one of her actresses on the show, Jenna:
Liz: “I can’t believe I did that, I told myself I would never lie about my age.”
Jenna: “These things happen Liz. I had my “no sex with Asians” rule, but then one day you walk into Sharper Image and there’s Kwon.”
Liz: “Forget it. I’m going to order some more coffee and then he’ll come back and I can cancel.”
Jenna: “No, this is a good thing. A hot guy thinks you’re 29.”
Liz: “Ah, he is cute. He looks like Zac Efron. That’s a thing, right?”
Jenna: “Oh go for it Liz. I always roll with it when hot guys think I am 22. What can we do?, we’re cougars.”
Liz: “We’re what?”
Jenna: “Cougars, hot older ladies pouncing on their young prey.”
Liz: “Uh…”
“No sex with Asians rule”? Like, WTF? Note, the character Jenna plays a fairly loose woman in 30 Rock, so I was wondering – why did they have to write that dialogue. Then again, I guess they could have replaced Asians with anybody else (black, Hispanic, Jews, fat people, etc… rule) and offended another group in the name of comedy. What do you think? You can watch the episode yourself here – “Cougars” (Episode “207″) – minute 7:00 for the dialogue above. Overall, it was a pretty damn funny episode.
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LeroyStockholm
if you could read you would see that she actually did fuk the asian dude so what are you complaining about?
Spencer__
they couldn't have said black people. The way it goes unfortunatly is if you are anything but black people can make racist jokes about you. black people especially love to get away with saying nasty things about white people. Respect is a one way street when it comes to some black people. who are in my opinion the most rasist people in america.
I agree with you. It isn't right, and i'm glad you wrote this article. I think 30 rock is a terribly liberal show... it gets annoying at times. I just think its funny how intolerant the jokes are comming from writers to claim to be tolerant.
JenSnow
Jenna also said in an episode that her number 1 wish was to date a white football player. Her character is supposed to be a generally offensive person. Not that Asain men aren't desexualized in Hollywood, this just isn't the best example...
I just noticed a "Vietnamese size 2" comment today on 30 Rock, and there was also the Asians in the golf is not a sport segment on SNL because if Asians participate then it can't be a sport, which is really a narrow-minded thing to begin with, because you'd think otherwise if you've seen the Olympics or if you acknowledge that there is a world outside the US with many other sports and most of it doesn't even know what American Football is. Is it okay that it's not really Tina Fey saying this but some character she's pretending to be saying these things? She's still putting it out there to sell a joke. I never realized it but she seems to have a things against Vietnamese girls, because she sure references them a lot - if you've seen Mean Girls you might notice how she portrays them.
I feel there are subtle undertones of racism. It seems like she's using preconceived notions to try and make jokes but they are not funny. I also read an article where Tina Fey mentioned that when she came to NY, she said it was full of Asians. I never noticed these little comments on her show, but they are piling up and are starting to bother me.
Well SNL and 30 Rock are not funny to me. It makes me uncomfortable also seeing how Tracy Morgan is being caricatured all the time. Is Tina Fey racist against Asians? I really would like to know, but I don't think it would really matter to most people. Even if she is and there's a big story that breaks, and she apologizes or whatnot, her opinions won't change and she's still going to go back to work and probably make jokes about how she can't make racist jokes anymore. I never thought about this, but I don't see many NON-South Asian actors on NBC, unless you count Senor Chang in Community and Hiro and his buddy on Heroes - that's it. Are there more?
Thing is, 30 Rock has made several negative comments against Asian people. One where Jenna says something to the extent of her mouth being as wide as an Asian--- (I forget the exact wording; she might have actually said Vietnamese, but still)--regardless she made women who are Asian sound like whores. Then there was the Japanese title for Liz Lemon's book where the grammar is purposefully incorrect. This is minor to the other comment made, but still. I've decided to stop watching the show altogether. And I used to be such a Tina Fey fan. But I'm tired of being offended.
Thing is, 30 Rock has made several negative comments against Asian people. One where Jenna says something to the extent of her mouth being as wide as an Asian--- (I forget the exact wording; she might have actually said Vietnamese, but still)--regardless she made women who are Asian sound like whores. Then there was the Japanese title for Liz Lemon's book where the grammar is purposefully incorrect. This is minor to the other comment made, but still. I've decided to stop watching the show altogether. And I used to be such a Tina Fey fan. But I'm tired of being offended.
'No sex with Asians' was uttered by J-e-n-n-a. Hello! She's the blond bimbo! Used in that context, that rule was supposed to clue the viewers in to its outrageous-ness and baseless-ness. Not only that, Jenna realizes that rule of hers was an ignorant one bc she likes her Kwon.
What's up with these ethnic first names - couldn't they have written into the dialog, say, "Michael Leong" instead of "Kwon?"
For real. I was disappointed there were no asians in that John Adams HBO series too.
I believe we should all be racist to ALL peoples. That's equality.
Anyway, Matt, I totally agree with you. I think people need to lighten up.
Just to play devil's advocate... how do you feel about the term "white" or "european".. or "african"
I don't have an issue with the 30 Rock scene but I would like to ask.. what variety of roles do Asian Americans have in the media? I would really like to know. Let's eliminate Asian American females though. Let's hear the variety of roles for asian males.
If you haven't noticed, there are no members of the cast who are asian in this show. theres blacks, hispanics, whites, but, guess what..no main asians in this show at all, except for this kwon dude
If you haven't noticed, there are no members of the cast who are asian in this show. theres blacks, hispanics, whites, but, guess what..no main asians in this show at all, except for this kwon dude
Dude, you are far too sensitive. Or either a troll for posting this entry. At least she ended up having sex with Kwan, so all is good, right? :-)
Should young people be offended that Liz had a no-dating-younger-men rule?
Most clever sitcoms these days take digs at all types of people of different races, genders, sexual orientations, ages, political views, cultural backgrounds, etc. 30 Rock is no exception.
Get over it, or stay away from prime time television.
Dude, you are far too sensitive. Or either a troll for posting this entry. At least she ended up having sex with Kwan, so all is good, right? :-)
Should young people be offended that Liz had a no-dating-younger-men rule?
Most clever sitcoms these days take digs at all types of people of different races, genders, sexual orientations, ages, political views, cultural backgrounds, etc. 30 Rock is no exception.
Get over it, or stay away from prime time television.
Maybe you should watch less TV.
Maybe you should watch less TV.
Matt:
Jews, Black, Hispanic, okay i'm sorry but just because you migrated, don't put yourself in a pluralistic group that is dangerous and harmful to others, and if you're in that situation, you should represent yourself, we migrated under certain circumstances, and I will gladly sit down and listen to each of your invidual experience.
The more you know, the better person you will become, and police should be educated people, because a law enforcement like you that carried a gun, and making life n death decision in split second, should have more knowledge to make better judgement. We all know how carried away a law enforcer in America operates dont' we?
To defend bad television jokes that is supposedly "compassionate" and thought up by a hodgepodge people who themselves are confused and unread about the world except where they lived is a poor excuse. The best jokes are the ones about yourself, the worst is against someone else.know thyself.
Well read people will actually visit the library, and they don't need to be educated by TV. Reality is that this hodgepodge americans are educated by TV from the likes of Cnn and questionable statistics that is convenience.
Ignorant americans don't need to be exposed to more information that will further confused,and generate more misunderstanding. This is a country that evolved from conformity to self expressive invidual views that are down right ignorant and at times arrogant. More excuses will not work, silence should be the standard of excellence.
Matt:
Jews, Black, Hispanic, okay i'm sorry but just because you migrated, don't put yourself in a pluralistic group that is dangerous and harmful to others, and if you're in that situation, you should represent yourself, we migrated under certain circumstances, and I will gladly sit down and listen to each of your invidual experience.
The more you know, the better person you will become, and police should be educated people, because a law enforcement like you that carried a gun, and making life n death decision in split second, should have more knowledge to make better judgement. We all know how carried away a law enforcer in America operates dont' we?
To defend bad television jokes that is supposedly "compassionate" and thought up by a hodgepodge people who themselves are confused and unread about the world except where they lived is a poor excuse. The best jokes are the ones about yourself, the worst is against someone else.know thyself.
Well read people will actually visit the library, and they don't need to be educated by TV. Reality is that this hodgepodge americans are educated by TV from the likes of Cnn and questionable statistics that is convenience.
Ignorant americans don't need to be exposed to more information that will further confused,and generate more misunderstanding. This is a country that evolved from conformity to self expressive invidual views that are down right ignorant and at times arrogant. More excuses will not work, silence should be the standard of excellence.
Asianannoyed doesn't like the term "Asian" because "it has a disrespect for cultures, countries, borders and boundaries." I guess he/she also dislikes the terms "black", "white", "Hispanic", etc. And probably also, say, "American", because it doesn't respect different cultures. But he uses the term "jews", which doesn't in and of itself distinguish between countries, borders or boundaries. And as far as cultures, it only refers to one aspect of culture, thought it has a connotation of categorizing into a similar ethnicity.
Think how hard it would be to do anything without categories, though. "Police are searching for the three assailants, all of whom were in their mid-20s. One was from ancestors who spent significant portions of the past ten millennia in either Niger, Nigeria, Central African Republic, Sudan, Zaire, ....." and then, five pages later "The other two assailants were from ancestors who, for the majority of the past ten millennia, made their home in either England, Sweden, France, Germany, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Italy, ...."
I also disagree with his stance on racial jokes on television. I think, if they're done compassionately, as I think they usually are on "30 Rock", that they go much further in the direction of increasing racial interaction, understanding, comfort and tolerance than they do in promoting segregating stereotypes.
Asianannoyed doesn't like the term "Asian" because "it has a disrespect for cultures, countries, borders and boundaries." I guess he/she also dislikes the terms "black", "white", "Hispanic", etc. And probably also, say, "American", because it doesn't respect different cultures. But he uses the term "jews", which doesn't in and of itself distinguish between countries, borders or boundaries. And as far as cultures, it only refers to one aspect of culture, thought it has a connotation of categorizing into a similar ethnicity.
Think how hard it would be to do anything without categories, though. "Police are searching for the three assailants, all of whom were in their mid-20s. One was from ancestors who spent significant portions of the past ten millennia in either Niger, Nigeria, Central African Republic, Sudan, Zaire, ....." and then, five pages later "The other two assailants were from ancestors who, for the majority of the past ten millennia, made their home in either England, Sweden, France, Germany, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Italy, ...."
I also disagree with his stance on racial jokes on television. I think, if they're done compassionately, as I think they usually are on "30 Rock", that they go much further in the direction of increasing racial interaction, understanding, comfort and tolerance than they do in promoting segregating stereotypes.
I have a suggestion for the responsible well being that is Hollywood.
How about "No comments about ethnic on tv rule", I was also watching this show when that line seem to spark a fire.
Asian should avoid america's media limelight as far as im' concerned, it does us more harms than good.
If Asian wants to take care of business like the jews..they should spend money on a PR blitz, buying up more hollywood properties and shutting them up. The word asian alone is annoyanced, it has a disrepect for cultures, countries, borders and boundaries.
This ignorant world doesn't need to be provoked anymore than it should be, gee that line alone will tickle plenty of ignorant joes ,inspired them to start more fire and then say.. "i'm joking, i'm kidding"
it's really blatant ignorant to start an offensive jokes and then softening it up, how typical is that these days on tv. it's a symptom of america's passive racism, cause it used to be just plain expressive racism, and that's what? only 20yrs ago?
I have a suggestion for the responsible well being that is Hollywood.
How about "No comments about ethnic on tv rule", I was also watching this show when that line seem to spark a fire.
Asian should avoid america's media limelight as far as im' concerned, it does us more harms than good.
If Asian wants to take care of business like the jews..they should spend money on a PR blitz, buying up more hollywood properties and shutting them up. The word asian alone is annoyanced, it has a disrepect for cultures, countries, borders and boundaries.
This ignorant world doesn't need to be provoked anymore than it should be, gee that line alone will tickle plenty of ignorant joes ,inspired them to start more fire and then say.. "i'm joking, i'm kidding"
it's really blatant ignorant to start an offensive jokes and then softening it up, how typical is that these days on tv. it's a symptom of america's passive racism, cause it used to be just plain expressive racism, and that's what? only 20yrs ago?
Roger, you talking about me? I'll date Kiera Knightly, Natalie Portman or Uma Thurman :-).
Roger, you talking about me? I'll date Kiera Knightly, Natalie Portman or Uma Thurman :-).
Get over it. The whole point of the dialog was that generalizations and stereotypes are dumb... and you're reacting to it as if she simply stopped at "I have my 'no sex with Asians' rule." and actually... SO WHAT IF SHE DID?!? I know lots of Asians who won't date white (like a certain 8Asians blogger). Given the variety of roles that Asian Americans have in the media these days, including some really HOT roles... I personally don't have an issue with this.
Get over it. The whole point of the dialog was that generalizations and stereotypes are dumb... and you're reacting to it as if she simply stopped at "I have my 'no sex with Asians' rule." and actually... SO WHAT IF SHE DID?!? I know lots of Asians who won't date white (like a certain 8Asians blogger). Given the variety of roles that Asian Americans have in the media these days, including some really HOT roles... I personally don't have an issue with this.
I LOVED Mean Girls - and is one of the reasons why I love Tina Fey. Here is a smart, articulate, talented woman who thankfully tries her best to understand the world around her, and not the bubble she lives in.
I LOVED Mean Girls - and is one of the reasons why I love Tina Fey. Here is a smart, articulate, talented woman who thankfully tries her best to understand the world around her, and not the bubble she lives in.
Bertie -
Yes, Tina Fey wrote "Mean Girls," but I never saw the movie, but have heard good things about it - I guess I'll have to rent it. I know Tina Fey mostly because she was on Saturday Night Live for "Weekend Update."
But like I wrote in the blog post, what really caught my eye for 30 Rock was Alec Baldwin's portrayal of Jack Donaghy. I really liked the episode where he is supposedly secretly dating Condoleezza Rice.
Bertie -
Yes, Tina Fey wrote "Mean Girls," but I never saw the movie, but have heard good things about it - I guess I'll have to rent it. I know Tina Fey mostly because she was on Saturday Night Live for "Weekend Update."
But like I wrote in the blog post, what really caught my eye for 30 Rock was Alec Baldwin's portrayal of Jack Donaghy. I really liked the episode where he is supposedly secretly dating Condoleezza Rice.
Tina Fey also wrote "Mean Girls" right? I think she understands the boundaries of racial humor and can provoke without being offensive. Remember that scene in Mean Girls where the narrator is describing the school cafeteria, and the narrator (Lindsay Lohan?) identifies all the cliques in the cafeteria? She goes through the list, "Preps. JV Jocks.." Then "Asian nerds" while showing a table full of geeky looking Asians.
And the first reaction is "WHAT THE EFF? Haven't we moved on from Sixteen Candles?! Bad writers! Bad writers! Bad! Bad! Bad!"
But then the narrator quickly moves on and says, "Cool Asians" and cuts to a table of dressed-to-the-nines Asian princesses. The narrator then continues, "Unfriendly black hotties, girls who eat their feelings..." And you just have to crack up, because then you know she's a lot more aware and "in on the joke" than most Hollywood writers.
Tina Fey also wrote "Mean Girls" right? I think she understands the boundaries of racial humor and can provoke without being offensive. Remember that scene in Mean Girls where the narrator is describing the school cafeteria, and the narrator (Lindsay Lohan?) identifies all the cliques in the cafeteria? She goes through the list, "Preps. JV Jocks.." Then "Asian nerds" while showing a table full of geeky looking Asians.
And the first reaction is "WHAT THE EFF? Haven't we moved on from Sixteen Candles?! Bad writers! Bad writers! Bad! Bad! Bad!"
But then the narrator quickly moves on and says, "Cool Asians" and cuts to a table of dressed-to-the-nines Asian princesses. The narrator then continues, "Unfriendly black hotties, girls who eat their feelings..." And you just have to crack up, because then you know she's a lot more aware and "in on the joke" than most Hollywood writers.
Ratrace: So you're flaming out commenter #2 because he's white, when pretty much what he wrote was a "me too" to commenter #1, who was Asian? Disagree all you want, but don't be an internet troll about it. Actually, I'm pretty much tired of your name calling and flame-baiting, so... yeah. No. Banned.
Ratrace: So you're flaming out commenter #2 because he's white, when pretty much what he wrote was a "me too" to commenter #1, who was Asian? Disagree all you want, but don't be an internet troll about it. Actually, I'm pretty much tired of your name calling and flame-baiting, so... yeah. No. Banned.
Wow, some YT thinks it's okay and clever! Waht a surprise. Fuck off Crakkka! We all know why that line was in there. Because in Amerikkka it's okay to be blatantly racist asgainst Asians in the media. This line is nothing more than just another in a long line of slags against Asians, many of which are without any kind of relevance to whatever the situation is. Try Black, Jew, or Hispanic and you'd get a lot of angry minorities protesting and many YT's uncomfortably apologizing. Put in Asian and you get no backlash.
Wow, some YT thinks it's okay and clever! Waht a surprise. Fuck off Crakkka! We all know why that line was in there. Because in Amerikkka it's okay to be blatantly racist asgainst Asians in the media. This line is nothing more than just another in a long line of slags against Asians, many of which are without any kind of relevance to whatever the situation is. Try Black, Jew, or Hispanic and you'd get a lot of angry minorities protesting and many YT's uncomfortably apologizing. Put in Asian and you get no backlash.
Between that and the "sexy librarian look" dig, I don't know what to think. ha!
Between that and the "sexy librarian look" dig, I don't know what to think. ha!
I'd have to agree her XXX above. And also say that sure, that line is funny and uncomfortable for all the reasons we've talk about regarding Asian portrayals in the media as well as the whole Asian male thang, but the line rings true to a white dude like me and also takes some steps to not be so garishly racist:
1) I have a friend, white woman, who got caught up in the Asian males stereotypes and found the nerdy, emasculated thing unattractive. And even uttered the sweeping phrase: "I don't Asian men." But then, she dates a dude who is not at all like that stereotype and guess what, he's still Asian. I see a bit of that sorta thing in the dialog.
and 2) Use of the name Kwon and not like "Chang" or "Ping" or something like that (no offense to folks with those names, they're just common is all). I liked that subtle detail. Also it was a Sharper Image, not a Chinese Restaurant of laundromat or other such ethnically specific place of business.
I'd have to agree her XXX above. And also say that sure, that line is funny and uncomfortable for all the reasons we've talk about regarding Asian portrayals in the media as well as the whole Asian male thang, but the line rings true to a white dude like me and also takes some steps to not be so garishly racist:
1) I have a friend, white woman, who got caught up in the Asian males stereotypes and found the nerdy, emasculated thing unattractive. And even uttered the sweeping phrase: "I don't Asian men." But then, she dates a dude who is not at all like that stereotype and guess what, he's still Asian. I see a bit of that sorta thing in the dialog.
and 2) Use of the name Kwon and not like "Chang" or "Ping" or something like that (no offense to folks with those names, they're just common is all). I liked that subtle detail. Also it was a Sharper Image, not a Chinese Restaurant of laundromat or other such ethnically specific place of business.
As a person who works in the film and television industry and also a screenwriter, I actually would say that line of dialogue is really clever. I find that a lot of people tend to get caught up in the line and not the meaning of what it's trying to imply. And while I'm not a regular viewer of 30 Rock, I do respect Tina Fey a lot because she has a very good understanding of the world around her. Much more so than I would give credit to many other people working in the industry ... like being INSPIRED by True Events.
As a person who works in the film and television industry and also a screenwriter, I actually would say that line of dialogue is really clever. I find that a lot of people tend to get caught up in the line and not the meaning of what it's trying to imply. And while I'm not a regular viewer of 30 Rock, I do respect Tina Fey a lot because she has a very good understanding of the world around her. Much more so than I would give credit to many other people working in the industry ... like being INSPIRED by True Events.
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