• http://www.merchantsmirror.com Ben Hwang

    Wish I looked like that guy. Damn. Gonna have to cut out carbs and only lift for like five hours a day, 4 days a week.

  • jenc

    I see two differences here between Jeff Yang’s article and your perspective, Efren:

    1) Asian gay men, while more apparent and more “out” than before (to you at least), are still not mainstream. Jeff was speaking more about his own perspective, and his own experience…although it would have been nice to have some stats about same-sex Asian couples/interracial…(are there even stats available?) I just don’t think that Asian gays are in the mainstream dialogue of interracial marriage simply because there are still so many in the closet, and definitely not represented in the media. “No gays in Korea!” Remember?

    2) Asian parents usually don’t want their sons to date men period, regardless of ethnicity. Asian parents usually want their straight kids to marry other Asians. I guess there’s not really that pressure for Asian gay men as there is with straight Asian men, as Jeff mentions in his article.

    Jen

  • http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2008/06/18/apop.DTL Jeff Yang

    Google Alerts pointed me to your post, Efren–great points. And yeah, for what it’s worth, I’ve actually tried to hold out on writing so broadly on this particular topic because, you know, it’s the THIRD RAIL (OMG!!!???WTF) of Asian American dialogue. It’s like a lightning rod for hate mail, no matter what you end up opining, and there’s absolutely no way to do the full range of issues involved justice in a single piece, even one that’s some 2500+ words long. I do think that the issue of “Sticky Rice” / potato queens / rice queens etc. in the gay community is a topic worthy of its own separate discussion, and I’m just waiting for the right peg, to be honest. Maybe if someone invites me to their wedding!

    Anyway, thanks for reading/writing.

    Jeff Yang

  • http://www.gracethespot.com Grace Chu

    Hopefully, this post — however long-winded as it is — will put an end to my own personal frustration of seeing all the straight Asian people bitch and moan.

    You all got it lucky. Look at my frickin’ dating pool.

    HAhahaHAha! Indeed. It’s like living in a one-bedroom rental watching people living in a split-level house bitching about about not having a McMansion. It’s like… bitch, please!

  • http://yvespaul.blogspot.com YvesPaul

    Thanks for sharing Efron. I try not to classify myself as a potato queen, but I do have a preference. I’m sure in a lot of ways the media had played a part on molding what people should see as beauty, not only for race, but body type and other factors. But I’ve learned to accept that as a part of myself. Funny thing is that I’ve met a group of black-asian couples, which opened up my eyes.

  • http://www.jozjozjoz.com/ jozjozjoz

    Ernie,

    Did you strategically that “8” into the photo?!

  • http://www.littleyellowdifferent.com ErnieAtLYD

    Sure did. Click on the photo itself to see the uncensored version.

  • dbldbl

    Hey Efren; Andre here. We talked about this for an article you wrote eons ago! Glad to see this topic come up again. I’m that guy who’s dating my Wonder bread and although my comment from that past article was, paraphrasing here, that dating another Asian was akin to dating a relative. Thinking about it now, I’m realizing that there was not enough Asian men of size that are my preference. Thank Jeebus for the American sedentary lifestyle; praise be PSone, PS2, and 3, XBox and parental type units afraid to let their kids run the streets, there are a WHOLE LOTTA thicker Asian menz representing on the streets! I also think that since the article Asians are not merely looking in and tiptoeing through the gay lifestyle; these young bucks are running game and embracing what’s out there. Coming from a 35 yr old, I envy their brashness. Then again there’s always that cycle of looking back in hindsight; was I lucky to be in an era where a thick big-bonded, hell I’ll say it, Fat Filipino can be found sexy and zesty within the gay cliques?

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  • http://flanflanflan.blogspot.com Efren

    Excuse the length of this comment :)

    Jeff: I loved your article because you were very evenhanded in your writing (given your reputation, I read your articles anyway because they’re so well written, but that’s besides the point). I’m just glad that you at least touched beyond the demographic of Asian and white since that in itself is a horse that is so beaten that it’s horseburger, especially since there’s so much racism with Asians and POC that when they start dating, everything hits the fan, regardless of sexual orientation and gender identity.

    I get irritated in the queer Asian male community about this because it’s always, ALWAYS focused on white men, and when the discussion turns to other men of color, it’s always about the sexual stereotypes of these men, and not actually having a long term relationship with them and all the racism that they have to confront. If you want, we should totally collaborate on this (too bad you’re not writing anything on this before SF Pride!).

    Jen: There’s a certain stigma and a notion among many Asians (Korean included) that homosexuality is a Western phenomenon, and that any men who identify as being queer/gay/bi are simply just too whitewashed. Never mind that there’s a long, rich history of same-gender loving people pre-colonialism (like the Tongsung saram of Korea, Princess Urduja from my home region in the Philippines who was known for taking both male and female partners, etc.). Because the current gay rights movements is so white, many right-wing conservative Asian Americans get really, really confused when they see two Asian men together, since their previous arguments no longer apply. But there is still other crap that we have to deal with. When I first met my partner, he had bleached his hair blond, and he is also very pale, so when my mom first met him, she thought he was white! I had to explain to my mom that he was actually Chinese and just bleached his hair. From my perspective, I know that my dad is happy that I’m at least with an Asian guy, since I’m not sure how he would’ve handled it if I were dating someone non-Asian.

    Grace: Amen, sista. ;) I know that the Asian women have it even worse than I do–and talk about incestuous. My Asian dyke friends who I hung out with at UCSB ALL dated each other, so of course it was a soap opera every time two or more of them got together.

    YvesPaul: At least you admit you have a preference. I have no time for men who try to justify their preferences with “I’ve always been interested in — culture,” rather than just saying that they’re attracted to them because you’re attracted to them. I have a lot of white friends who are self-professed “rice queens”–but then date other people since their preferences aren’t hard and fast.

    Andre: hehe! I think that’s one of the last things we have to confront–that all queer Asian boys are skinny twinky waifs! I think guys are very confused to see out bigger gay Asian men out there, especially I seem to have –apparently– stumbled into a community of sticky Asian chubs and chasers, even if it’s mostly outside SF, and that there are very few out bigger Asian men in SF (besides you, Ernie, and me!). Even though my partner and I don’t necessarily identify with that community, it’s interesting to see how THAT plays itself out.

  • http://www.gracethespot.com Grace Chu

    Well Asian women who date other Asian women have it the worst, because (from what I’ve observed) that community is somewhat insular and small, which of course, makes it incestuous and full of insane dyke drama. There’s a group I used to see all the time (when I used to be social), and my friend, who was peripheraIly associated with that crowd, used to blab about all their drama, and I’m like… how do you people keep it civilized? Don’t you want to branch out and meet other people? I mean, it’s like the straight Asian American crowd in college where everyone knows everyone’s business and people date their friend’s exes (and then go to Bible study), except ten times worse (minus the Bible study). And to top it off, half the Asian lesbians I know are in the closet, because they’re scared of what their parents may think. (Fortunately, my parents are in academia, so they’re pretty liberal.) So there is a lot of group in-dating and lots of secrets and a lot of “Oh we can’t talk about that when so-and-so is around,” etc. I don’t think I could keep my cool. I can barely keep my cool when I go to my girlfriend’s relatives’ house, who are becoming more accepting but are still stuck in a suburban mode of thinking. But yeah. Props to sticky rice for being a lot more patient (finding someone, as the dating pool is so much tinier) — and with all that parental stuff — than I could ever be.

    (Then again, I’m becoming somewhat of a curmudgeon, so I feel the most comfortable at home cooking or bitching to my girlfriend about the tripe I see on television.)

  • Efren

    Yeah, tell me about it. It’s about the same issues with us boys. I’ve been pretty good about keeping my dating pool and my friend pool distinct and separate, and until I met my partner, that meant dating closeted Asian boys. For me, the only person that I really cared about was my mom, who always knew about me, but never really talked about it. My dad has always been a “don’t ask, don’t tell” type about my life anyway, but has always been supportive of me. After my mom passed away, I stopped caring about what other family members thought, since I got tired of the secrets.

    It’s nice to see now that there are so many people who are out and who don’t have all those issues about race that were so prevalent when I was coming out. Most of the gay Asian men I know don’t have racial preferences one way or another, and they all seem to be well adjusted, regardless of who they’re with.

    Then again, living in San Francisco, it does seem that the sticky rice community has exploded and there isn’t as much need to be as forceful or political about one’s preferences as we did in the past, and it’s actually nice to hang out with other sticky rice without feeling like I’m being fed a gospel that I already know about. It is a bit disconcerting to realize that I am now in my mid-30s and have suddenly gone from the in-crowd to becoming an old-timer!

    I’m just really glad that both my partner and I are out to everybody and that I don’t have to worry about hiding things from people–though I still get really exasperated when I get asked about when I’m getting married (uh…were you living under a rock 4 years ago?! Jeez!)

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  • ChasSF

    Nice. I never discover those Easter egg thingies.

  • ChasSF

    Not sure why my comments aren’t threading, but that’s Web 2.0. Let’s see…

    – I’ve known at least 3 AM/BM long-term couples
    – I’ve known at least 2 dozen AM/AM couples
    – While I do find that photo attractive for eye candy, I prefer to find my playmates among the somewhat more padded crowd. Much more cuddable!
    – And yes, while I self-ID as a rice queen, I do find there are attractive men of all races.
    – If I’m going to go with another white guy, I prefer another Jewish guy like myself, but that’s a totally different blog post lol.

  • http://www.thesweetesttongue.com eggrollstan

    Love the article! I agree about the small dating pool! My roommate, who is “sticky rice”, has found himself unfortunately in a quite incestuous web here in Atlanta in the gaysian community…. And I remember overhearing an older white gentleman mention that asians who do asians are like unicorns… I gladly gave him a verbal spanking. I never really considered myself as “sticky rice” or “potato queen”, as I just find men gorgeous in all their colors and forms.

  • http://happyinvestor.wordpres.com bumscientist

    So actually, before Asian women were allowed into the United States, Asian men did marry black women. I’ve met a few old black women who spoke my dialect of Chinese. It was very unusual at first, but I saw them a lot since they were repeat customers at the restaurant.

  • Devon

    Hi,
    I’m African American and I have been in a loving relationship with my Brooklyn born Asian boyfriend for the past three years. His brother is also married to a a woman who is from Barbados and have two kids. Both brothers are both practicing Buddhists. We have never subjected one another to exoticism but rather rejoice in and embrace one another’s similarities not the differences. No two people are the same. Culture can even vary from family to family. But we all have a common ground. Holidays in our family are a hoot. I retain my Christianity he retains his Buddhism. We celebrate two New Years and boy can he make a mean Hoppin’ John ( Southern Black Eyed Peas). On our kitchen table is a holder for chopsticks and forks, Louisiana hot sauce, hoisin, and bamboo for luck. Don’t get so hung up on labels. Just be you. By the way I let him “wear the pants”. He’s taller.

  • carlos

    Hi,
    I’m African American and I have been in a loving relationship with my Brooklyn born Asian boyfriend for the past three years..

    }}} please let me know as black male how i can get an Asian male. I have never met one who was not just interested in white guys, even to the point, of pretending asians and blacks were not even in the room.

  • Warubozu

    Aloha from Hawaii.

    It is very interesting how the GAM experience here in Hawaii is so much different than other places in the US. Asian-Asian couples are the norm here and we teased (playfully) the Asians who dated white guys.

    I can’t say for sure why being “sticky rice” is closer to the norm but I think it has to do with the fact that Hawaii is such a multicultral Asian community that being white put you in the minority. If you dated a white guy you were the odd one. Things have changed since then and dating a caucasian isn’t odd – but neither is dating another Asian.

    I remember my first vacation in SF as an adult GAM. I went to N’Touch where there were many attractive Asian guys and they were looking at white guys – older white guys. That was my first experience with the “sticky rice” taboo and to this day I still don’t understand it. Do other ethnicities have similar – I don’t know what to call this – attitudes? Beliefs? Hang ups? Do Latinos frown upon dating other Latinos?

    About the “Asians have small dicks” stereotype. Asians and Pacific Islanders are the majority in all but a few schools here so in the high school locker rooms that was all we saw – other Asian dicks. In the years before the Internet we didn’t have the opportunity to see naked guys except in the locker rooms so really, we all had similar dicks. Don’t get me wrong, there were small dicks and big dicks but they were for the most part – Asian dicks. Maybe that’s why my generation of friends don’t have hang ups about the size of our dicks? I don’t know, just a guess. This sounds like Hawaii has a real “small town mentality” and maybe it was when I was growing up but I remember my college roommate telling me that there were no Asians in his hometown so in a way, isn’t this similar?

    One of my friends in SF referred to me as his “jap friend” in Hawaii. I asked him about it and he said that was a common term and didn’t understand why it bothered me. In Hawaii, “jap” is a derogatory term, maybe not as widely recognized and distasteful as “nigger” but believe it or not – close to it.

    Come to Hawaii were you will find the entire spectrum of Asians, Pacific Islanders, caucasians, Latinos, Blacks, and many interesting combinations- maybe one of them will be your Mr. Right!

  • Thomas

    Im am African American and I was deeply touched my your article. I learned a lot this month about being gay and Asian and it’s been enlightening. My boss is a young Asian male and I think he’s handsome. He just happens to be into Black women and not men. LOL

  • Lexi

    Hey Carlos & Thomas,

    If you want to look for Asian men, you have to look for Asian men who are not caught up in being the white boys royal pet! Most Asian in general feel that they are in with the white culture, but they are not, because it has to cum with a price! So if you can get an Asian man who is self confident, then that’s the guy who you’ll be able to meet. Odd thing is that white guys are running to blackmen in droves! GO FIGURE!

  • http://myspace.com/aaliyahluver79 Rod

    :) Yeah I like this story I send it to a couple of Asian guys I know. Well sadly I just got rejected again by another Asian guy. But yeah I’m the type that doesn’t give up even when I’m kicked down. I told this Asian guy recently that I love Asian men and I found him to be attractive. It was all good right until I told this guy that I’m Black. Well his response was “sorry but I don’t like Blacks”. “No offense”. :( Riight I said it’s all good but you know that really did hurt my pride some. He said “I’m into white twinks”. But he claimed that we could be “friends.” Ugh I told him I’m not shocked by that because he isn’t the first Asian guy to reject me with that line. *his lost because I’m not bad looking at all* (wink) lol

    Oh well we like what we like right?. I don’t have a problem with White guys it’s just I really don’t feel some urge to date one. They are more acceptable always and I want to grow and learn with another male of color. I don’t think that I would reject a White guy if we could relate to each other or the attraction is there but I definitely perfer Asian men. I once dated a bi curious White guy in the past and I helped him to find himself but I didn’t feel a strong connection with him. He ended up messing around with other random Black guys so I guess he learned nothing at all. (sighs)

    Well I do have a few Asian guys that I really like alot but they are either to freakin’ far away or I’m just like some sexual fantasy “friend” too them. I also seem to always attract the MARRIED Asian men. *hey why do I always attract the married men?!* lol Ugh damn the frustrations!….

  • ER

    Efren I cannot agree more with your comments. As an Asian guy, when I first came out I had self-esteem issues. I was blindly conditioned by the American mainstream media that “white guys are the pinnicle of masculine beauty” and I didn’t even realize what it was doing to my own self-worth. I wasn’t “chasing” white guys per se, but I was definitely chasing a dream of having a white boyfriend. “Luckily” for me, my first BF was a handsome white-guy who was 26 at the time (I was 19). However, my insecurities about my own self-worth and the fear that he might be “stolen” by other Asian guys led to a lot of problems between us and eventually I broke off our relationship. That did even more damage to my already fragile self-worth and self-esteem. I then went into an emotional low. Following that, I did the gay club thing for a while, hooked up with some guys from either the internet and/or clubs that I didn’t really find attractive (some guys I found attractive but not all), while at the same time hating myself from the inside. Now “lucky” for me I am a slightly different kind of Asian breed that goes against the “stereotyped” GAM: I am tall, well-built, and straight acting. This apparently sells well among the rice-queens. In addition, quite often I would get some sticky GAM that approached me online or in clubs, showing their interests in me. However, being so experience-dependent and conditioned by the stupid American mainstream media, I would reject almost all Asians that approached me, including the gorgeous ones. What I did not realize at that time was that by rejecting those people I was rejecting a part of myself deeply inside.

    It wasn’t until when I was 25 that I had my first experience with another fellow Asian man. He was a smart “sticky” GAM (Harvard educated, btw), and when we talked about our past experiences that’s when I realized how much I was missing out and how much self-loathing I was engaging. I had an awakening moment; I started to see Asian guys in another light, and it was truly liberating. I cried for days (once it starts it’s very difficult to stop) and when I was done I feel as if I was reborn again. It was a detoxification from all the unhealthy emotional and spiritual poisons that the media and my own expectations have been fed to my soul. Unfortunately I learned the lesson the hard way by experiencing all that bottled up pain. I wish none of you guys have to go through what I did.

    After that, even though it was hard for me to rebuild my ego, I managed to build a much better one. Now I am in a much better place than I was 8-9 years ago. I am more confident, understanding, and according to my girl-friends, sexy. I find Asian guys very very attractive now. In fact I am now looking for an Asian boyfriend, but the problem is that the majority of Asian guys out there are now in a place that i was at 8-9 years ago: they don’t date other Asian guys, but rather see each other as rivals for other rice-queen GWMs.

  • PK

    I am in a relationship with a Chinese male aged 30, I am 58 from Australia, I love him very much, I have been told in the past that the Chinese especially like to get out of China and therefore some use us foreigners to do so and then leave us for a younger male or better looking male.
    Can anyone plese give me any advice?

  • Cheng

    If you don’t believe him, maybe you could test him that you would move to China and live with him then see how he reacts.

    Me being Chinese and my ex-bf who is black broke up 9 month ago, but we still keep in touch, send a email to each other every weekend to say hello and what’s going on. I know we still got a feeling for each other, but we both know that’s never gonna happen again. We became the best friends or like what he said: I’m his family!

  • Andrew

    This is aquestion for Warubozu.
    I’m an Asian male student from the Midwest and I’m thinking of living in Hawaii for a while, because I’ve heard that the Asian (both gay and straight) American dating experience is better. Throughout my experience I have found that many gay men of color (Asians, blacks, latinos) prefer to date white men. I always grew up thinking this was the norm. My boss, who is a black gay man told me that at first when he came here (he’s from the south) that he thought it was only gay black men that prefer white men, but told me that he later discovered its other people of color that prefer white men. Things wouldn’t be so bad if the reverse were true. But its not. White men prefer to date only white men, mainly. Looking at the demographics, it seems like its not too surprising. Most of the people here are white. Growing up with mainly white boys as your peers, where first crushes are formed, that’s who we tend to be attracted to, or at least me. However, I would like to change that. I’ve grown up in a place where there is a lot of internalized racism and self-hatred. Asian men don’t want to date Asian men (I’m guilty of the same thing) and often fight to the death (okay not literally) for the next white boy whose into Asian boys. It doesn’t matter how good looking the white boy is or is not, he usually has his pick of the litter and can therefore afford to be a jerk. I would like to be able to change this, b/c I feel if I settle for a white boy just because he’s white, I’ll be cheating myself. My friend told me that I need to go to a place where Asian men are valued, respected and appreciated. What do you think? What can you tell me about the gay Asian-American experience there?

  • warubozu

    Aloha Andrew! My apologies for not responding sooner as it has been a long time since I’ve been here. I’m not clear on your reasoning for wanting to date other Asians, it seems like you don’t want to date a white guy because you see that as settling. First and most important: Are you physically attracted to other Asians? You wrote that you didn’t want to date Asian men and used to “fight” for the next white guy into Asians. What has changed?

    Anyway, the GAM experience is different here in our beautiful islands than in other states. Asian culture is dominant and everywhere, not in pockets like in Japantown or Chinatowns. Like Margaret Cho said: “Where else can you find a musubi or dim sum in a 7-11?” Seriously, you can order sushi party platters from 7-11 (although I wouldn’t recommend it) but think about what that says about the prevalence of Asian culture. Asians dating Asians is normal and there is no negative connotation to being “sticky-rice”. Of course there are Asians who prefer white guys just as there are white guys who prefer Asians. The main difference here, at least in my opinion, is that Asian-Asian is not frowned upon, if anything its more common than not and much easier. If you find yourself standing in a crowd of GAMs they all won’t go a twitter when a white guy walks by. In fact, many of my friends have never dated a white guy because either they are not physically attracted to them or for cultural reasons. I’m sure you have experienced the cultural differences – that’s more important than some people realize.
    Sometimes the white guys you are familiar with come to Hawaii and think that they can have their pick of the Asians here because the Asian where they are from ALLOW them to think that. Sometimes that crosses over into an arrogance that turns many of us off because they treat Asians as objects – the origin of the derogatory term “ornamental”. Apparently these white guys believe that Asians need them for some reason. I know the internalized self-hatred topic has been discussed many times in many places but in Hawaii – it is different. We don’t hate ourselves in that way; we don’t need white guys to validate us, we don’t grasp for white meat because we think it is better because we have somehow been lead to believe that Asians are bad. Hell no!
    My first trip to San Francisco as an adult GAM opened my eyes in many ways. One thing that stands out in my memory happened on the airport shuttle on my way to the hotel. We stopped at an intersection and I saw two guys in suits holding hands in public. Then during my visit I saw more male couples freely showing affection. For the first time in my life I felt comfortable being gay and it wasn’t something that made me different – I fit in. Think about how you feel when you are with other Asian guys who have similar backgrounds and values, how comfortable is that? Perhaps when you come to Hawaii you will have a similar epiphany that it is okay being a GAM who doesn’t need a white guy for validation. Sure, not all Asians are into Asians here in Hawaii but at least those who prefer white guys do so because they CHOOSE to, not because of self-hate, guilt, or peer-pressure.
    If you haven’t heard of it, you might want to check out Fridae.com, a GAM network – with a few white guys too…
    Aloha and Good Luck!

  • Jeff

    I just stumbled on to your posting and found it very interesting and alittle surprising after reading some of the comments also. I live on the east coast near Philadelphia, PA. I prefer friendships with Asians mostly men and have never thought as though they needed me for any reason, I had just thought that I was lucky to be able to get to know them and probably treated them better than most white people, I have to admit that I have felt attracked to asian men at different times and sometimes felt alittle intimitated. Can anyone tell me why I sometimes feel like this? look forward to hearing from you all.

  • Jeff

    I like that pic at the top, where did you get it? I am close to haveing a body like that, been hitting the gym hard. Its hard work but I feel good.

  • Andrew

    Hi~You said you were attracted to but intimidated at the same time by Asian men. Do you think this could be fear of potential rejection? Ex: if you like an Asian boy and he doesn’t like you back? As for being attracted, maybe there was a particular experience in your life that drew you to Asian men? Hope that helps~btw, what was so surprising about the comments made?

  • Jeff

    Hay Andrew thanks for takeing the time to write me back. I found some of the comments surprising because someone mentioned how they at some point thought so little of themselves or a self lowething I would guess thats what surprised me alittle.
    As you mentioned it could be a bit of the rejection thing maybe. I guess its a number of things that are hard for me to put into words. I can tell you this my attraction to Asian men really started when I left south east asia, after being there for a year and a half. I will tell you this also I really hate it when I see blacks and whites try to take advantage of asians can’t even really tell you why this even bothers me so much, but It dose believe it or not.
    It would be cool to site and talk about this.

    Thanks again getting back to me jeff

  • angel

    Hello Everyone! Where to start? This is an incredibly tricky subject and despite trying to stay objective , I have to say that my experiences and emotions may ‘colour’ some of my comments. I think that racism per se is borne of many ‘negative’ factors; be they lack of knowledge, fear, misunderstanding or down right nastiness. Similarly, the attraction to things are formed from ‘positive’ factors such as good understanding, pleasant experiences, eagerness to try new things etc. Building relationships start from such quite basic drivers/keys. It would be a brave man/woman who did not admit that there are ‘keys’ which start us on the road towards being attracted to or repulsed by someone; these ‘keys’ being the positive/negative factors. So, being attracted to white, black, brown, yellow (please don’t read anything into the colour order) should really be a matter of self choice and individual ‘keys’. Certainly well experienced individuals should normally have the facility to accept a wider range than someone with more limited exposure. The converse off course is that a well experienced person ‘knows’ what he wants and only tracks this whilst a relative newbie should be looking to try all. Told you it was tricky? AND ON TOP OF ALL THIS runs our peer/social pressures and historic ‘dna’ from colonisations/occupation/war blah blah blah. People are human, and suffer many many short comings and luckily divine moments. Often ethnic stereotyping intrudes and one can become self conditioned or even mass conditioning occurs; type of mass hysteria. Disappointment and blame is another favourite human game too. I like X but X prefers Y so X must be………… I think exposure is a main key and it brings very powerfully to the fore strong qualities of love, support and integrity; no matter the colour or race or geographic type or or or. Its a looooooooong slooooooow frustrating process and civilizations and understanding move at tectonic speeds. I am a mixed Asian. Been described as a ‘mongrel’ and generally fall into a ‘no man’s’ land (excuse the pun). I am no ‘gay conventional’ stunning beauty such as your picture but I believe I pass the attractive acceptability radar for most cultures. However, I have been brought up in London and most of my life has been experienced with Caucasian and Black influences but very little Asian experience. I would like to have a relationship with Asians but as many of the other posts have indicated there appears to be a strong attraction for asians to Caucasians; and I am usually left in the shop window, sadly for me. I am sure that at some point I will find someone and until that time I try my best to be as open and non judgmental as possible and try to put into perspective experiences of ‘white guys having asian pets’, ‘asians putting white guys on pedestals’, ‘asians blanking black men’, ‘black men chasing everything’, ‘asian boys using white men for money/security/passport’, ‘older white men chasing submissive asians’…THE TYPES GO ON AND ON AND ON. I am sure that if I wait long enough a type suitable for me will come along. The thing I try and remember and remind myself is that to force anything usually ends in frustration and skewed perception. As long as no one is forcing me to do anything, hopefully I remain my own master and my fate is in part in my hands. So, to cut to the conclusion; there are lots of people out there, good, bad, indifferent and sometimes wierd :-). Be confident in yourself and try your best in the nicest possible way. If things don’t go as you would like then keep trying and don’t blame unnecessarily. Your Prince will come along. In the mean time, this mongrel is still on display; maybe I should move to Hawaii? :-) :-) Take care Everyone. Angel

  • garfield

    Why do I like the caucasian and not feel anything for my fellow Asians? Its really hard here in Australia as whites go for whites and Asians go for whites but it’ll be hard as. Hard because there’s practically nothing for us. Most of the white men profiles will smack you with ‘no Asians please’ straight in your face. It felt bad but you still like to date them. Its a crazy crazy life out here. My fellow Asians on the other hand feels the same, and we are not attracted to each other. There’s a White-Asian couple here but the age gap is so wide, white mature aged and Asian young age. The only real chance is that scenario. I just wish Asians be equally desirable as the white Aussie men. Seems Australia is not multicultural after all. Maybe multicultural in the sense of Caucasian European countries mixed up here.

  • Gerald

    Just love yourself… You can’t change your ethnicity! (Enough complaining about Asians not being desirable!!) You can’t change who you’re attracted to. Accept the challenge of finding what you would like to find. But do not ever compromise yourself or settle for something less than what you deserve. This may take a lifetime but hey, it’s better to be alone than being in a bad relationship.

  • Jay

    I really enjoyed this article. Enough that I want to finally make a comment. I am an African-American male who really never dated anyone until I moved to Hawaii. When I first moved there, I didn’t want to date Asian guys because I didn’t want to be “second choice.” I ran into the I’ll only date Caucasian guys or “everything but black.” So I had sort of a hostility toward those that didn’t pick me because I thought I well-qualified candidate and was getting rejected just for skin color. I’m not the typical black guy that the media wants you to believe we all are. But to get to the point.. it took me a while and took a Filipino to change my mind. He cared about me regardless of my skin color and his family took me in when I was away from my family.

    Trying not to date Asians in Hawaii was like trying not to wear shoes through a ghetto. Not going to happen, lol. But to say the least. My most successful relationships have been with Asian men. Not saying I’m a rice person or whatever they call people that always end up with Asians, but somehow the only people that talked to me and talk to me seriously have been Asian. Maybe because I’m light-skinned, so that makes me the safe black guy to try out. Maybe because I don’t use the n-word, I do a bunch of testosterone-driven activities, or because I like learning about other people to find our similarities. Who knew black guys and Vietnamese have so much in common. I even like fish sauce now.

    I try my hardest to give everyone a fair chance just like I think I deserve. But anyhow, my longest relationships have been with Asian males. All from Hawaii except one. On the mainland, the mind frames are a lot different. You’re likely to see a 40 year old white guy with an 18 year old asian. Just because its more acceptable by his family. I see a lot of Asian-Asian relationships, but more commonly you’ll see Asian-White here as its just about the only thing you’ll find on the internet and on tv. Like the other commenter said, in Hawaii it was looked down upon if you dated a white guy and even dating a black guy was sorta weird.. but I blended well for some reason. Probably cause I looked Filipino until I said something.

    As I said before, I like the article. But I don’t think its too much of a taboo to date your own race. Just don’t fall into the trap of thinking you’re inferior to another to the point where you judge people solely on their race. Make up your mind about the person using their personality, not their race.

  • Leon

    Hey everyone, I am 24 and when i was in high school I had a crush on my friend from Laos. It was never reciprocated and I have never found asian gay guys easy to come by where I live. I now have a wonderful boyfriend from China who is very insecure about being gay. I try to accommodate him knowing the cultural taboo about being gay, so I just bite my tongue and be patient. I think asian guys are beautiful and I treat my BF like a prince. I dont think I would ever date another white guy, just from bad experiences. I would only date asian or latino. But ultimately beauty is in the eye of the beholder and in the other person’s heart. Thanks for this cool blog and sharing ur experiences!

  • Pingback: 8Asians.com » What is Beautiful?

  • r_hung

    Hey Efren, I read your post and thought that it was somewhat true back in the 90s when I was growing up as a teen. Coming out at age 16 when I first had access to the “internet,” it was an awkward experience when all old gay white males were attracted to me. I don’t want to brag, obviously, but I guess I was seen as a sexual object, really. The young gay femme bottom. The thought of the common asian body or man was not very appealing to me while growing up because they were not as sexually appealing as the common white male. Media has a way really to negatively depict the common Asian man as skinny and scrawny little beings with small penises. Ever since I moved to Canada back in ’99, I have truly become attracted to Asians, whether they are westernized or fobs. All through those 10 years, I cannot see myself with another white male, mainly because of the cultural barriers and “competition.” I wouldn’t have to compete because I don’t want to compete with these twinky Asians. I couldn’t care less if you wanted to compete; however, competing with me for my 4 year relationship with a Filipino is a cat fight that is bound to happen, whether the bf-stealer likes it or not. Being with him opens up my eyes because having an Asian bf really does make a huge statement for the common AM-WM relationships, which are in the norm today.

    The first pet peeve when an Asian man goes for a Caucasian man is mainly because the AM will only settle for the next one coming his way. That was my flaw. I never had confidence in my own attractiveness. I never loved my body, never loved my sexuality, never loved my skin colour, never loved my average Asian penis. Now, I love myself because you would only find love IF AND ONLY IF you love yourself. Therefore, these Asian men need to start loving themselves and think of themselves other than sexual objects to the common gay male. The second and last pet peeve is the fact that many Asian males are competing for the Caucasian males. Competition leads to malice and objection as desperate bitter bitches.

    Finally, I hope my comments do not offend anyone.

    Enjoy.

  • TomTom

    Seems like every race has its stereotype taped to their foreheads.
    Myself. I’m a gay black guy. Already some might start to sum up the following: Hyper-masculine, exclusive top only, dominating and aggressive. All of those stereotypes are the exact opposite of what I am. I’m lithe, a bottom, more submissive and passive. That being said, I’ve just isolated myself out the normal routine. The only luck I probably would have in dating is only if I were that dominating black guy. The stereotypical role. I want to stray far away from being that way. Its true that stereotypes have become almost a fetish.

    The only men I can really get is just within my own race. Only then would I at least not be treated as a fetish and instead, a person. I don’t mind dating within my own race but I’d like to know what else is out there, instead of getting cut out of rest of the gay world. Sure I could wait around and hoping to find another black guy who has a similar personality to mine. But that would be limiting.

    I wanted to date an Asian guy, but when I go browsing around, I did find those who like to stick to that stereotype. Much like the black men who wanted to just be a top. Now it seems these two races share something in common. They can be labeled as sub and dom. Whats even worse it seems like a majority of men want to date Caucasian. There is hardly any mixing and mingling and bringing up these issues will deem you as “another guy who got rejected from a white guy.”

    I’d love to find an Asian top who were into black guys. But I know the possibilities are just completely rare. Or non-existent. If they are out there I’d love to see them pop up. The same would go for a white guy who wants a black guy (not to fulfill that rape fetish) rather than to take on the role of the dominate one.

    Sad reality of it all, it seems people enjoy these stereotypes if it benefits them. For those that are opposite of it, well looks like you are going to be searching for your match for a long time.

  • itsallgood

    well,…so much has been said so I won’t repeat. It’s brutal out there but I won’t give up nor should you.

    In response to TomTom, I’m a “gay asian top” (here we go again with the labels) and into black guys, asians and latinos as well. And the occasional white guy. We do exist and not as rare as you think.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_E344FPSQYPCVDDR2H6UE3RZRYQ Brian R

    Love this article although its old now…
    To put things in context, I should reveal that I’m caucasian. I have to admit, I don’t have a lot of inclination to admire the white queer agenda. I’ve found it increasingly irritating how white men seem to be the flagbearers of the ideal gay wet dream. Sweaty white models and actors are probably not to blame, but its this hype created by gay media and by racist folks that propogates it. It’s as though finding a white boyfriend is supposed to be the gold medal, and winning a mixed boyfriend is maybe silver, but anything else is bronze or something ultimately less.
    My struggle as a gay teen to try and appease other whites was very short lived and I’m thankful for that being over now. I can’t speak for everyone but I personally felt like one was required to be some kind of Abercrombie boy and fit into an exact set of standards in order to be admired… okay, even looked at… by the generic, white, american-raised gay demographic. One thing I can still say that is fucked up is how there is this dogma that “If only asian (or only black. or only latino. or people who don’t speak perfect english.) guys think you are hot, you must not be that hot.” Cuz white people, similarly to celebrity judges, have the final word on whether you are sexually attractive or not, eh? On the contrary, I find absolutely no cause for erection when I see white men kiss and embrace. I just don’t.
    Now as an adult where my mind is open to all kinds of weird things, I suspect that I may have lived in Asia in a past life, and nothing insults me like hearing someone insult Asians. Typically Americans do make it uncomfortable for me to express my attraction for an Asian boy when in their company, or mention that my boyfriend’s name is not something like “Aiden” or “Kyle” but it’s “Dong Yao Ting.” I’ve gotten reactions like, “Oh, you and all them Asians,” and “So you’re a rice queen?” It’s not as though I just said I like whips and handcuffs or I like having sex underwater while holding my breath… But why do my preferences get “fetish-ized?” Could it be because western-created asian boi porn sites are so grossly perverted?
    A wish of mine… I hope that in the future there will be more Asian actors and singers who a.) don’t have to move to Asia or else give up dreams of being a star, and b.) can show Asian-American children that they dont necessarily have to grow up attempting to erase their racial background in order to be mad, mad, mad attractive.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1201878 Christophở Lêquang

    Here’s to the “revolution!” Great article! Needs to be resurfaced!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=14403068 Mike Kim

    You dont’ need to. You’re very good looking. :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=707547263 Kenji Oshima

    Go Efren!

    As a Hapa guy I’m the ambassador for becoming Sticky Rice :-) That’s mostly a joke as a number of GAM’s have said “You’re the 1st Asian guy I’ve dated/slept with”. I usually reply, “Well, technically I’m not Asian (ah, what IS race after all?) but seriously, awesome article and sorry it took me 2 years to find it.

    After growing up, dating, and sleeping with nothing but White guys (Boston, 1980’s) I found myself leading a ‘Racism in the Gay Community’ discussion. As I began to examine my mixed cultural values an odd thing happened: I naturally started finding Asian/Mixed men attractive (odd isn’t the word – obvious is more like it).

    There occasionally comes a time when I am almost put on the defensive. To which I gently reply (and I know this is a generalization as well) “If we were in our countries of origin would this (sticky) be an issue? … no?

    And I haven’t looked back in 28 years …

  • SteveLikesRice

    I realize all minorities, including Asians and gays, have been treated badly. I have always felt that prejudice and discrimination was wrong and always will feel that way. At the same time I do not think I should have to apologize to anyone for being a gay white male who is attracted to Asians. Please understand that I am attracted men of other ethnicities as well, however my strongest attraction always has been toward Asian men. Although technically my partner is a Pacific Islander as opposed to Asian per se, I am attracted to him, I love him, and I want to spend the rest of my life with him. I don’t apologize to anyone for the fact my attraction to him is largely due to his ethnicity or for the almost nine years age difference. Big deal at our ages anyway. The bottom line is that if two people love each other that is all that should count. No one should be in any way considered a second class citizen because of their race or ethnicity or who they love.

  • AA123

    Im white and I’ve dated and hooked up with Asian men for years. I did it for reasons of physical attraction and sometimes love. From first hand experiences, I can tell you that Asian men are not typically submissive, nor have a small package. That is an ugly stereotype and often untrue. The sexual experiences were often good. The relationships were all bad experiences. I always tried to make it work, and be as “normal” as possible. This included introducing my Asian partner to friends and family, and anyone special in my life. I also wanted to know and experience their cultures as well. I even studied some Asian languages at UCLA. With my best intentions, everything always failed. I was always treated like a dirty secret, neglected , and ultimately abandoned. This wasn’t an isolated incident. It kept happening over and over. I found gay Asian men superficial, and more concerned with money and appearences than actual human relationships. Also, the stereotype that young Asian men fall to their knees for white men, especially older white men, is wrong. That is another ugly stereotype. Most gay Asian men (like any man of any race, sexuality) prefer a partner much younger than them. I know I’m not perfect, but I asked my last partner “why did you continue dating me, if you hate me?”. I know all of this behaviour is typically gay, and not so typically Asian. I continue to have straight Asian friends through my martial arts classes. We get along very well, and I hold them in high esteem. Consequently, I’ve given up on plastic relationships and only have straight friends now. Yes, I notice hot Asian guys that I see on occasion…but I can only remember arrogance and cruelty. I’m emotionally drained, and I have no love left inside of me.

  • monarchboi2010

    OMG Im a gay black male and definitely know how you feel i too am a interracial dater and its hard to find someone that is willing to date outside their race. Sadly to say that some parts of the gay community doesn’t accept it but i guess it is what it is hopefully my partner will come someday till then Im just going to do me

  • Nevada Summer

    this makes me sick, I don’t have anybody to blame but I like caucasian men too, but It’s actually putting me off, by how white guys look at us asians like we’re filth of the earth! I advocate asians to stop looking at white guys as if they we’re the gold medal we’re attaining for. if its segregation they want, we should give it to them, and eventually they will get bored, or when they’re old fat and ugly already they will come looking for a younger asian guys and we shall refuse this. no matter how old this article is, the topic is still very much ALIVE. the only solution is to build up the gay asian image among gay asian community. that way we don’t encounter this horrible racism that we do not deserve. no matter how hard you try, white masculinity is different that asian masculinity, the more frustrated you get when you feel you don’t fall into the standards of this caucasian model like gods. Just don’t look at them anymore, they will disappoint you, be yourself hold your head high and if they approach you fine, but always maintain a higher ground with this self loving people (White Gays).

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