Excited
If you grow up in the United States you’re pretty familiar with the fact the divorce rate in the U.S. is close to 50% (meaning 50% of all couples that get married typically end in divorce). So when I came across an article this week that said mixed couples divorce in droves, it got me wondering if mixed race couples divorce more than non-mixed race couples, and if the actual races involved make a difference.
At first blush, it would make sense that mixed couples divorce more, since there’s more going against the couple, different culture, background, family pressure, etc. I did some light research and found it difficult to find actual statistics around mixed race divorces. It was much easier to find statistics that Asian-Asian couples divorce far less than white-white couples, but not much on mixed race couples in the U.S., other than generalities that seemed to indicate mixed couples divorce more often.
I did find one study in China that showed mixed couples (specifically from different countries) divorce more.
All this searching got me thinking about my own experiences in mixed race relationships. I’ve had my share of failed relationships, but today, I happen to be in my longest relationship to date. I’d like to think it has something to do with being older and wiser. But I think in reality it has to do more with understanding the dynamics in my mixed race relationships. I’m going to apologize here for using stereotypes, as I know not everyone fits into these buckets, so if you don’t please don’t take it personally.
I wrote in another 8asians post that in American culture you have a duty to God, Country, Self, and then Others, but in Chinese culture, it’s Family, God, Country, Others and then Self. You’d think that would work well in an White-Asian mixed race relationship. The white half of the couple looks after him/herself (duty to self) and the Asian half looks after the white partner (duty to family). I realize I was part of that pattern in many of my own early relationships. I always did what was best for my partner, and not what was best for me. That worked until there was something I needed, and then there was no compromise.
I always thought a good example of this mixed Asian/White relationship paradigm was in Amy Tan’s The Joy Luck Club. One character Rose Jordan, is a strong Asian woman, yet she still does everything for husband Ted, but nothing for herself. He never thinks to put her first and their relationship ends in divorce as well.
It wasn’t until I realized I needed to find a partner who was willing to put me first when I needed it, that I found a relationship that really worked. Is that impossible in a mixed Asian/White relationship? No, but as cliche as it sounds, both parties in the relationship really have to understand each other’s point of view, background, and culture; and put work and time into the relationship to have a successful partnership.
I’m going end this with one final piece of advice for single Asians (and non-Asians) looking for the ideal partner. I found this in a Newsweek article during my research on mixed race divorce rates. They suggest, the next person you date should be an Asian male.
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Ed
To LittleBoots not sure if you actually read the article you're referring to or have habit of skewing statistics to fit your situation but Asian Female/White Male and Asian Male/White Female marriages both fail more often then Asian Male/Asian Female and almost as much as White Male/White Female marriages.
I think it really boils down to whether you get along well, have the same goals in life, and are from a similar upbringing / background. By similar background, it doesn't necessarily mean same race.
My background is Chinese and my fiance is white, but I really do believe we are good together because we were both born and raised in the same city, went to the same high school, are of the same religion, class, and our families are pretty similar too (our mothers were both housewives and our fathers traveled a lot for business, and we both have younger siblings).
My ex (who was Asian -- Vietnamese) and I fought all the time, whereas my fiance is much more welcoming of my Chinese culture, going so far as to learn Cantonese and Chinese food (but he doesn't have an "asian fetish").
I don't know if this counts as a credible source, but on the Wikipedia article about interracial marriages, it said that white-female / asian-male couples are more likely to divorce than white / white couples, while white-male / asian-female couples are less likely to divorce. I wonder if there is something to that?
I have always felt that mixed race couples with different cultural backgrounds often bond more and have more interesting connection then couples from the same background do. For example my husband is Buddhist and I a follower of the Jesus church but this leads us to have very loving and interesting regular discussions about our faith.
So, as I read most of the previous comments the main words I rarely if ever heard was Love, Enjoy or Relate to someone regardless of there race or cultural background. Marrying inter-racially or inter-cuturally may provide a surface happiness to the outside world but inside, because marriage is such a difficult task in and of itself, the potential for misery and unhappiness will still rule the day. And really for those who speak to working at and putting forth effort to make a marriage work, in my opinion that foolishness. Don't we work hard enough at our jobs. Is marriage suppose to be a job or a beautiful experience requiring no "WORK"?
So, as I read most of the previous comments the main words I rarely if ever heard was Love, Enjoy or Relate to someone regardless of there race or cultural background. Marrying inter-racially or inter-cuturally may provide a surface happiness to the outside world but inside, because marriage is such a difficult task in and of itself, the potential for misery and unhappiness will still rule the day. And really for those who speak to working at and putting forth effort to make a marriage work, in my opinion that foolishness. Don't we work hard enough at our jobs. Is marriage suppose to be a job or a beautiful experience requiring no "WORK"?
Actually, among immigrant Asians, white-Asian couples are more accepted than say an inter-Asian couple such as Japanese-Korean or Chinese-Vietnamese. I know a Korean family which disowned one of its daughters for marrying a Japanese but the white son-in-law was accepted.
Actually, among immigrant Asians, white-Asian couples are more accepted than say an inter-Asian couple such as Japanese-Korean or Chinese-Vietnamese. I know a Korean family which disowned one of its daughters for marrying a Japanese but the white son-in-law was accepted.
The issue here is not race but ethnicity. Here in the US, the couples described in the article would be considered the same race and would not raise an eyebrow. In this country you are mixed only if you are of a different race, black-white, black-Asian or white-Asian. Taiwanese marrying a Vietnamese does not count!
The issue here is not race but ethnicity. Here in the US, the couples described in the article would be considered the same race and would not raise an eyebrow. In this country you are mixed only if you are of a different race, black-white, black-Asian or white-Asian. Taiwanese marrying a Vietnamese does not count!
In some of my past relationships, my parents (and their lack of acceptance of my partner) was certainly a driving piece of why we broke up. It wasn't the main reason, but it certainly contributed.
In some of my past relationships, my parents (and their lack of acceptance of my partner) was certainly a driving piece of why we broke up. It wasn't the main reason, but it certainly contributed.
Mother-in-laws who feel that they should like their daughter/son-in-law need to stop thinking about themselves. There is an assumption that "mother knows best" that your relatives KNOW how you feel and what you should and shouldn't choose to do.
Maybe they should stop and ask the question, is my son/daughter/offspring happy? And if they are, then I should be happy too.
Mother-in-laws who feel that they should like their daughter/son-in-law need to stop thinking about themselves. There is an assumption that "mother knows best" that your relatives KNOW how you feel and what you should and shouldn't choose to do.
Maybe they should stop and ask the question, is my son/daughter/offspring happy? And if they are, then I should be happy too.
I was raised among Asians and feel quite comfortable with them but I've never dated an Asian woman. I feel the cultural differences are too great. In a world where people get divorced over religious and mere rich/poor class differences marriage into an Asian family, and lets face it you're marrying into the whole family, presents a higher potential for someone just flat out not liking you. You would say that you're marrying the woman and not her family, but that's not how it works out over time. Even Harry Truman's mother-in-law never felt he was good enough.
I was raised among Asians and feel quite comfortable with them but I've never dated an Asian woman. I feel the cultural differences are too great. In a world where people get divorced over religious and mere rich/poor class differences marriage into an Asian family, and lets face it you're marrying into the whole family, presents a higher potential for someone just flat out not liking you. You would say that you're marrying the woman and not her family, but that's not how it works out over time. Even Harry Truman's mother-in-law never felt he was good enough.
I think opinions are good. The issue of interracial marriages is a complex one. It boils down to a personal decision. People get married for all sorts of good and bad reasons. People also avoid dating people for all sorts of good and bad reasons. What's good and what's bad are subjective opinions. Though, I would say there are some racist, sexist, and classist stereotypical reasons why many people date OR DON'T DATE certain races. (e.g. Asian girls are so exotic, Asian men are chauvinists, Asian men are so hot, Asian men are so effeminate and asexual, etc etc... ). If you can't figure it out, I'm being sarcastic, but all of those statements are bigoted in some way.
This topic of mixed-race marriages is actually getting pretty old. So I think one should let it go. Love is personal.
I think opinions are good. The issue of interracial marriages is a complex one. It boils down to a personal decision. People get married for all sorts of good and bad reasons. People also avoid dating people for all sorts of good and bad reasons. What's good and what's bad are subjective opinions. Though, I would say there are some racist, sexist, and classist stereotypical reasons why many people date OR DON'T DATE certain races. (e.g. Asian girls are so exotic, Asian men are chauvinists, Asian men are so hot, Asian men are so effeminate and asexual, etc etc... ). If you can't figure it out, I'm being sarcastic, but all of those statements are bigoted in some way.
This topic of mixed-race marriages is actually getting pretty old. So I think one should let it go. Love is personal.
Well, Tim did used the article as a reference to the topic of mixed marriages, along with other links to refer to issues relating to Asian-Americans and Canadians. Some of the comments here have valid points though.
On the topic on Taiwan, I'm not from there but have quite a lot of aquantinces and family friends. Their concepts are a tad bit different regarding mixed marriages (at least from what I know) cause it's not just between different races, nationalities and/or ethnic groups but also different "Chinese" subgroups as well. The younger generations may have different opinions though. To those not familiar with Taiwan-topics, some things are a bit confusing.
Well, Tim did used the article as a reference to the topic of mixed marriages, along with other links to refer to issues relating to Asian-Americans and Canadians. Some of the comments here have valid points though.
On the topic on Taiwan, I'm not from there but have quite a lot of aquantinces and family friends. Their concepts are a tad bit different regarding mixed marriages (at least from what I know) cause it's not just between different races, nationalities and/or ethnic groups but also different "Chinese" subgroups as well. The younger generations may have different opinions though. To those not familiar with Taiwan-topics, some things are a bit confusing.
I'll ask my librarian. They do all sorts of literature searches. That information is being gathered by ethnic studies phd students and the like. So, I feel we'll get more data soon.
Apparently gay divorce rates are about the same as the non-gay kind. There was this article in the NYTimes about folks who got married in Massachusetts and then got divorced. (Go Celtics!)
I'll ask my librarian. They do all sorts of literature searches. That information is being gathered by ethnic studies phd students and the like. So, I feel we'll get more data soon.
Apparently gay divorce rates are about the same as the non-gay kind. There was this article in the NYTimes about folks who got married in Massachusetts and then got divorced. (Go Celtics!)
@Eugene: Yes, I acknowledged that I could find little data on mixed race divorce rates in the U.S. There's just not good statistical information on anything other than single race couples divorcing. If there were even mixed race stats that just included Asian as a general category it would be a good start. But there were certainly lots of people writing that they believed in "general" mixed race or even mixed culture relationships probably have a higher rate of divorce.
@Eugene: Yes, I acknowledged that I could find little data on mixed race divorce rates in the U.S. There's just not good statistical information on anything other than single race couples divorcing. If there were even mixed race stats that just included Asian as a general category it would be a good start. But there were certainly lots of people writing that they believed in "general" mixed race or even mixed culture relationships probably have a higher rate of divorce.
Did anyone else besides Tim read the article about Mixed Couples? That article is from the Taipei Times. They are talking about Chinese/Taiwanese person marrying a person of any other ethnicity. They come at it as Taiwanese people. So, as far as I'm concerned, the article's perspective about "mixed couples having higher rates of divorce" is pretty much irrelevant in the United States and Canada. It is not clear whether pan-Asian couples are even considered mixed race couples. A person of Korean, Chinese, Japanese, or other "Asian" heritage is pretty much just Asian here in North America. It would be interesting to learn about pan-Asian relationships and how they fare as compared to mono-ethnic Asian relationships and Caucasian-Asian relationships.
Did anyone else besides Tim read the article about Mixed Couples? That article is from the Taipei Times. They are talking about Chinese/Taiwanese person marrying a person of any other ethnicity. They come at it as Taiwanese people. So, as far as I'm concerned, the article's perspective about "mixed couples having higher rates of divorce" is pretty much irrelevant in the United States and Canada. It is not clear whether pan-Asian couples are even considered mixed race couples. A person of Korean, Chinese, Japanese, or other "Asian" heritage is pretty much just Asian here in North America. It would be interesting to learn about pan-Asian relationships and how they fare as compared to mono-ethnic Asian relationships and Caucasian-Asian relationships.
Race DOES NOT equal nationality
There have been Asians living in "America" since the 1700s. Large numbers since the mid 1800s.
Race DOES NOT equal culture
An Asian raised in America will probably have a blend of traditional and mainstream American cultures.
A second or third generation Asian American IS American.
Only the individual defines his or her culture.
Therefore, whether an inter-racial marriage works depends in the individuals. People cannot be reduced to their race. People cannot be reduced to their "nationality."
@"pastfirst": the statement: "itu00e2u0080u0099s advisable to stick to oneu00e2u0080u0099s own race" is INDEED RACIST. That makes you a racist.
I always find it amusing how racists like to begin their statements with "I"m not a racist but." At least have the balls to own up to your own bigotry.
Race DOES NOT equal nationality
There have been Asians living in "America" since the 1700s. Large numbers since the mid 1800s.
Race DOES NOT equal culture
An Asian raised in America will probably have a blend of traditional and mainstream American cultures.
A second or third generation Asian American IS American.
Only the individual defines his or her culture.
Therefore, whether an inter-racial marriage works depends in the individuals. People cannot be reduced to their race. People cannot be reduced to their "nationality."
@"pastfirst": the statement: "itu00e2u0080u0099s advisable to stick to oneu00e2u0080u0099s own race" is INDEED RACIST. That makes you a racist.
I always find it amusing how racists like to begin their statements with "I"m not a racist but." At least have the balls to own up to your own bigotry.
Korea Is #1 ~
Absolutely ~ Would have been just fine---but for cultural reasons, not racial reasons..
Korea Is #1 ~
Absolutely ~ Would have been just fine---but for cultural reasons, not racial reasons..
Kim,
but had you been Asian and Chinese, you would of been all right? right?
Kim,
but had you been Asian and Chinese, you would of been all right? right?
Well, to the other Kim, if you take all of these posts together, I'm beginning to understand that most of the posters are using race and culture interchangeably. I don't fault Edwin--- or pastfirst---for his statement: "Its advisable to stick to one's own race" Of course, in polite American white society you could never make that statement.
But in the context of Asian culture it makes sense. Korean dating Korean etc. makes total sense in the shared cultural experience context. Same food culture (which, lets face it, is more important that we normally assume--smells, senses tastes, comfort) Shared history, and the discipline of extended family, and social expectations. It doesn't make sense to call it racial:
Ours is a perfect example why: When I traveled to central China to meet my father-in-law for the first time, there were definite expectations, and protocols that my soon to be wife had warned me about---even trained me for. Her father is a brilliant, and broad minded man, former college president, but also very traditional, a Party member, former PLA officer---and who as a teen in the 1940's joined the party for one reason only---to kill Japanese soldiers brutally occupying China at the time. During that first visit, I discovered how lucky I was to be white, and an American (my Father had listened to Voice of America since the 1950s, and still does). But it was also apparent---if I had been Asian, and Japanese--- I never would have made it across the threshold into his apartment, and into my inlaw's lives. Those strong feelings about the Japanese exist to this day across China---cultural---not racial.
Well, to the other Kim, if you take all of these posts together, I'm beginning to understand that most of the posters are using race and culture interchangeably. I don't fault Edwin--- or pastfirst---for his statement: "Its advisable to stick to one's own race" Of course, in polite American white society you could never make that statement.
But in the context of Asian culture it makes sense. Korean dating Korean etc. makes total sense in the shared cultural experience context. Same food culture (which, lets face it, is more important that we normally assume--smells, senses tastes, comfort) Shared history, and the discipline of extended family, and social expectations. It doesn't make sense to call it racial:
Ours is a perfect example why: When I traveled to central China to meet my father-in-law for the first time, there were definite expectations, and protocols that my soon to be wife had warned me about---even trained me for. Her father is a brilliant, and broad minded man, former college president, but also very traditional, a Party member, former PLA officer---and who as a teen in the 1940's joined the party for one reason only---to kill Japanese soldiers brutally occupying China at the time. During that first visit, I discovered how lucky I was to be white, and an American (my Father had listened to Voice of America since the 1950s, and still does). But it was also apparent---if I had been Asian, and Japanese--- I never would have made it across the threshold into his apartment, and into my inlaw's lives. Those strong feelings about the Japanese exist to this day across China---cultural---not racial.
I've talked about this at length with my brother and my white boyfriend.
We, my bf and I, don't have so many problems culturally because I take the time to explain why I'm so devoted to my family ,etc. I don't expect him to understand, but even when he doesn't, he's still supportive. Support and understanding are two different things, for sure, but support can and sometimes grow into understanding.
Also, I'd like to point out that I've had problems dating Viets who didn't grow up in the US. There's a huge cultural difference ther for me, because I grew up in the Midwest, with mostly white friends, and some Asian friends. I still love my culture and I don't think dating a white man makes me any less of an Asian at all, so what Edwin is saying bothers me.
I've talked about this at length with my brother and my white boyfriend.
We, my bf and I, don't have so many problems culturally because I take the time to explain why I'm so devoted to my family ,etc. I don't expect him to understand, but even when he doesn't, he's still supportive. Support and understanding are two different things, for sure, but support can and sometimes grow into understanding.
Also, I'd like to point out that I've had problems dating Viets who didn't grow up in the US. There's a huge cultural difference ther for me, because I grew up in the Midwest, with mostly white friends, and some Asian friends. I still love my culture and I don't think dating a white man makes me any less of an Asian at all, so what Edwin is saying bothers me.
Throughout the years, I knew quite a few inter-racial couples, both in my parents generation to my generation (think baby boomers to Millenials, I think).
Without these statistics...based on just personal observations I did noticed among the people I knew, almost half of the married couples either ended in divorce, separation or still staying together but have big issues.
Looking at the other half of the stable relationships (at least from what I could see), and from what I could learn, I think the a very big reason many people overlook is whether or not the couples had the same outlook in life, similar life goals or ways of thinking, rather than race, ethnicity even culture in some cases.
A couple reasons why some religions request their members only married other members was that they still held the idea that marriage is still meant to be forever and in a lot of cases, same religious beliefs often meant same mentality towards life. (Not all the time, but that was the original intent). I mentioned religion a bit because for some people, religion is your ethnic-social identity.
Having different life goals will definantly create conflict in one way or another. Also, many people have many different problems to deal with marriage in general...let alone race, ethnicity, culture, nationality, etc. These mixed marriages can work if they put a lot of effort.
Throughout the years, I knew quite a few inter-racial couples, both in my parents generation to my generation (think baby boomers to Millenials, I think).
Without these statistics...based on just personal observations I did noticed among the people I knew, almost half of the married couples either ended in divorce, separation or still staying together but have big issues.
Looking at the other half of the stable relationships (at least from what I could see), and from what I could learn, I think the a very big reason many people overlook is whether or not the couples had the same outlook in life, similar life goals or ways of thinking, rather than race, ethnicity even culture in some cases.
A couple reasons why some religions request their members only married other members was that they still held the idea that marriage is still meant to be forever and in a lot of cases, same religious beliefs often meant same mentality towards life. (Not all the time, but that was the original intent). I mentioned religion a bit because for some people, religion is your ethnic-social identity.
Having different life goals will definantly create conflict in one way or another. Also, many people have many different problems to deal with marriage in general...let alone race, ethnicity, culture, nationality, etc. These mixed marriages can work if they put a lot of effort.
I think Jeff makes a better point when he says there's a variaton. Just because there's a Asian couple, doesn't mean there isn't ethnic or cultural conflict.
Again, many Koreans will most likely marry a Korean. Vietnamese will either marry a Vietnamese or Chinese. Japanese will go with Japanese. Chinese at this point will go with any Oriental female, due to the fact that there is a higher ration of men to women. Philippines...well you already know how that goes. Then there's so many other Asian groups.
Then religion also comes into play too, whether it's being Hindu or Catholic. Sometimes religion has a big part into the lifestyle.
The problem with just looking at the general couples...Whites, Blacks, Asians, Hispanics/Latinos...is there are many other factors that can also come into play.
If Asian females marry outside of their ethnic background or a non-Asian, most likely it will be to a White guy which is probably due to the fact that either they grew up around White people or for some reason can't connect with Asian males, which can depend on a number of factors.
A lot of mixed Asians are also due to the military.
I think Jeff makes a better point when he says there's a variaton. Just because there's a Asian couple, doesn't mean there isn't ethnic or cultural conflict.
Again, many Koreans will most likely marry a Korean. Vietnamese will either marry a Vietnamese or Chinese. Japanese will go with Japanese. Chinese at this point will go with any Oriental female, due to the fact that there is a higher ration of men to women. Philippines...well you already know how that goes. Then there's so many other Asian groups.
Then religion also comes into play too, whether it's being Hindu or Catholic. Sometimes religion has a big part into the lifestyle.
The problem with just looking at the general couples...Whites, Blacks, Asians, Hispanics/Latinos...is there are many other factors that can also come into play.
If Asian females marry outside of their ethnic background or a non-Asian, most likely it will be to a White guy which is probably due to the fact that either they grew up around White people or for some reason can't connect with Asian males, which can depend on a number of factors.
A lot of mixed Asians are also due to the military.
it's not racist for asian to date only asians (exception: white washed asians might be racist and choose to not date asians)
We do it because of our own ethnic pride, we love our culture and we want to continue it.
I happen to believe that racism in a very western perspective and what defines as racists is not the same line of thought asians take when they discriminate.
Real asians are only guilty of discriminating using social class.
Besides that, as an asian male.
All I can say is I would not expect to see the day for asian males after being treated so badly, being marginalized by western society, pressured to not be asian and even racially discriminated against by some of our own women etc
In the present day and age, the smarter people are starting to understand and respect us better.
Asian and Asian couples (if people even have that choice) is the ultimate winner.
V 0_0 V
Thank you!
it's not racist for asian to date only asians (exception: white washed asians might be racist and choose to not date asians)
We do it because of our own ethnic pride, we love our culture and we want to continue it.
I happen to believe that racism in a very western perspective and what defines as racists is not the same line of thought asians take when they discriminate.
Real asians are only guilty of discriminating using social class.
Besides that, as an asian male.
All I can say is I would not expect to see the day for asian males after being treated so badly, being marginalized by western society, pressured to not be asian and even racially discriminated against by some of our own women etc
In the present day and age, the smarter people are starting to understand and respect us better.
Asian and Asian couples (if people even have that choice) is the ultimate winner.
V 0_0 V
Thank you!
Well, I think there are degrees of cross-cultural..
Maybe a second generation Korean---Orange County born and raised---as strict as that upbringing might be---is still going to have elements of westernization. (and btw pastfirst: "It's advisable to to stick to one's own race.." ---is the Definition of racist---no need to apologize---I understand your point--which is not hostile to other races, but it is racist nevr the less.
In my case, for a white guy in America to marry a Chinese woman who is the product of the Cultural Revolution, from a family of Party members---that has been a cross-cultural challenge...
Well, I think there are degrees of cross-cultural..
Maybe a second generation Korean---Orange County born and raised---as strict as that upbringing might be---is still going to have elements of westernization. (and btw pastfirst: "It's advisable to to stick to one's own race.." ---is the Definition of racist---no need to apologize---I understand your point--which is not hostile to other races, but it is racist nevr the less.
In my case, for a white guy in America to marry a Chinese woman who is the product of the Cultural Revolution, from a family of Party members---that has been a cross-cultural challenge...
What they probably mean is staying with your own ethnicity and culture.
Like Koreans are more likely to date a Korean, we're just cool like that.
What they probably mean is staying with your own ethnicity and culture.
Like Koreans are more likely to date a Korean, we're just cool like that.
@pastfirst: Staying with the same "race" isn't an absolutely effective way of avoiding culture clashes. There is just too much variation.
@pastfirst: Staying with the same "race" isn't an absolutely effective way of avoiding culture clashes. There is just too much variation.
I haven't checked out statistics and I'm definately not a racist, but there definately is the issue of different cultures in mixed race marriages.
It's advisable to stick to one's own race, mainly as it avoids a culture clash.
As it is, marriage is a gamble.
Good luck. Hope you find her.
I haven't checked out statistics and I'm definately not a racist, but there definately is the issue of different cultures in mixed race marriages.
It's advisable to stick to one's own race, mainly as it avoids a culture clash.
As it is, marriage is a gamble.
Good luck. Hope you find her.
My immigrant Vietnamese grandmother's reasoning for her (constant) pleas for me to marry an Asian girl, is that white girls are spoiled and will spend all my "doctor income". She hasn't yet realized that we live in the suburbs now and everybody spends money "like white girls" and not like frugal Asian grandmothers.
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