Excited
How the heck did karaoke (ka-ra-oh-kaykeh) get pronounced carry-okie? Or is it carrie-okie?
I can understand if one or two people just screwed it up, but how did the wrong pronunciation gain popular acceptance?
I used to correct people — or rather help people how to say a word they are struggling with. But at some point I stopped trying.
I can kind of understand the “okie” part, but as for the “carry?” No way, no how, nuh uh.
What other mispronunciations really annoy you?
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oh damn Joz! u can shoot me now cuz I've been calling it carry-okie for the longest time! My family actually pronounces it, I guess more similar to the Japanese way.
But I'm sorta used to hearing Americans, including myself, butcher other words that come from other languages. I think it's a mixture of what people have previously commented, that some people are just either lazy to pronounce or some people aren't just used to the sounds. I mean I think there's a reason why the British also laugh at the way Americans (USA) speak English as well
I mean just take Kobe Bryant for example. Majority of Americans, including him, just say "Ko-BEE" and not Ko-Beh
Maybe people should start correcting others more, just like how Russell Peters says Latinos immediately correct people who don't pronounce Spanish words correctly.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vi...
We can start with last names, especially Cantonese and Vietnamese =)
oh damn Joz! u can shoot me now cuz I've been calling it carry-okie for the longest time! My family actually pronounces it, I guess more similar to the Japanese way.
But I'm sorta used to hearing Americans, including myself, butcher other words that come from other languages. I think it's a mixture of what people have previously commented, that some people are just either lazy to pronounce or some people aren't just used to the sounds. I mean I think there's a reason why the British also laugh at the way Americans (USA) speak English as well
I mean just take Kobe Bryant for example. Majority of Americans, including him, just say "Ko-BEE" and not Ko-Beh
Maybe people should start correcting others more, just like how Russell Peters says Latinos immediately correct people who don't pronounce Spanish words correctly.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vi...
We can start with last names, especially Cantonese and Vietnamese =)
Most of it annoys me when it is something easy to say for an English-only speaker.
I have been doing research into feelings about this and it is overwhelmingly "Who cares". I've been becoming obsessed with this topic lately and I am feeling so alone. I want to say why this saddens me, so please deal with my frantic tone, I want to be helpful. English American speakers in particular appear cocky to the world and the way we say things might help a little. Some Japanese doesn't sound natural in English, kala-oh-kay for example seems a mouthful but sa-kay? ki-mo-no, tem-pura. That is easy. They hear it said right and almost don't seem to hear because they don't care or they don't want to. People who don't care seem to be mostly the people who say it wrong. It's stubbornness. When I say things right people question, I politely explain, and then sometimes they seem almost defensive. They keep saying saki, kamono, tempora (where did the o come from?) Almost as if it's un-American to even try. I wonder if it has to do with our relationship with Japan. We still view the Japanese as weird, almost the most foreign of foreign. But French? We, to my knowledge all attempt hors d'oeuvres, Mu00c3u00a9nage u00c3u00a0 trois. We can deal with the silent letters, THEIR e sounds. Because French is a part of our language? And until recently it was a part of a well bred person's education? I'm just a housewife, but that is my understanding. I do realize the Japanese take everyone else's words and butcher them. Here is my defense. Firstly, they have a more limited set of sounds. Some things they have to butcher, my first and last name included. Then some they butcher further, things are chopped and glued together, maybe not understanding the full meaning of the word and maybe to make it more palatable to their ears? They want our words, but they are Japanese and some insiders even consider the country very xenophobic. Ok, it is their business if they want to look like that. Americans, some of us are very xenophobic, but most natives I know well are fairly open-minded to other cultures blending in. It is why our country as it is, from the beginning of the US as it is it was imported. Some people say proudly, "This is America" and get scared of new things. But I want to say with acceptance of our past imports and future ones "This is America!" And language helps to shape things. Language changes, especially when people don't have easy access to knowledge? But we aren't living in a century without access for everyone to research. When I am on a computer, it takes me less time to research a word in an online dictionary than one in book form. But I was troubled to see that a few trusted online dictionaries don't give good pronunciation. I really lost trust in them. Common newly adopted foreign words are said wrong, and the right pronunciation is alternative, if it is listed at all! I can tolerate sake sounding as saki, but don't shove the correct pronunciation and spelling aside. It looks terrible. It also makes trouble for people learning a language. When they think something is right, it becomes a habit, and when they are speaking in Spanish, guacamoli is what they say because of habit. My own friends who studied Japanese still say saki, main-ga because it is such a habit! I'm scared I will go to a restaurant, order sake from a menu that says saki and the waitress will correct my pronunciation because she read the "correct" pronunciation from dictionary.com. I want us to look a little better if it is easy.
I have, in fact, told a second generation Brit-American to go back to England for insisting I pronounce "been" as "bean."
However, I was also in elementary school.
I have, in fact, told a second generation Brit-American to go back to England for insisting I pronounce "been" as "bean."
However, I was also in elementary school.
darkmoon, read much? I was quoting someone else. Try to keep up.
darkmoon, read much? I was quoting someone else. Try to keep up.
Akrypti, when I was a kid, and I'm sure I'm not the only one here, white kids would taunt me with chants of "go home". I remember the old "America, love it or leave it" Bumper stickers, ones you rarely see these days. The idea behind both being that A'murca is for A'murcans and furreners ain't welcome. Do you subscribe to this idea? Are you so white washed that you would tell a Japanese to go back to Japan, what about second or more generation Asians?
Your ignorance blares in your comment:
"If Japanese people in the States have such a big bone to pick about how Americans pronounce Japanese words, then they really should move back to Japan where people will pronounce it correctly."
Would you say the same thing to someone of German heritage who insists on people saying angst and not "ang"st? Or how about telling someone who insists it's Monsieur and not Mon sewer to go back to France? I bet the idea wouldn't cross your colonialized little mind. But when it comes to A'murca, it's only for white folks and those who appease them for you, right?
Akrypti, when I was a kid, and I'm sure I'm not the only one here, white kids would taunt me with chants of "go home". I remember the old "America, love it or leave it" Bumper stickers, ones you rarely see these days. The idea behind both being that A'murca is for A'murcans and furreners ain't welcome. Do you subscribe to this idea? Are you so white washed that you would tell a Japanese to go back to Japan, what about second or more generation Asians?
Your ignorance blares in your comment:
"If Japanese people in the States have such a big bone to pick about how Americans pronounce Japanese words, then they really should move back to Japan where people will pronounce it correctly."
Would you say the same thing to someone of German heritage who insists on people saying angst and not "ang"st? Or how about telling someone who insists it's Monsieur and not Mon sewer to go back to France? I bet the idea wouldn't cross your colonialized little mind. But when it comes to A'murca, it's only for white folks and those who appease them for you, right?
People not familiar with NYC pronounce the "Houston" in "Houston Street" as "Hew-ston" when it's actually "How-ston."
People not familiar with NYC pronounce the "Houston" in "Houston Street" as "Hew-ston" when it's actually "How-ston."
Heh. Amusingly, what Ratrace had to say doesn't quite work when it comes to Americans in certain places. For example....
There is a a town around here spelled "Pfafftown".
I'd say the majority of west coast, and north eastern ... well heck, most people would say it:
"Faff-town"
Wrong. Here they call it:
"Poff-town"
Ooooookay. So where should these people move to? lol. They live here, and can't say it correctly.
Heh. Amusingly, what Ratrace had to say doesn't quite work when it comes to Americans in certain places. For example....
There is a a town around here spelled "Pfafftown".
I'd say the majority of west coast, and north eastern ... well heck, most people would say it:
"Faff-town"
Wrong. Here they call it:
"Poff-town"
Ooooookay. So where should these people move to? lol. They live here, and can't say it correctly.
Ratrace,
You're the one intolerant of dissenting viewpoints. Who's ignorant now?
And I thought I challenged you to write an 8Asians post. You're punking out?
Ratrace,
You're the one intolerant of dissenting viewpoints. Who's ignorant now?
And I thought I challenged you to write an 8Asians post. You're punking out?
akrypti wrote:
If Japanese people in the States have such a big bone to pick about how Americans pronounce Japanese words, then they really should move back to Japan where people will pronounce it correctly.
Christ, you're ignorant.
akrypti wrote:
If Japanese people in the States have such a big bone to pick about how Americans pronounce Japanese words, then they really should move back to Japan where people will pronounce it correctly.
Christ, you're ignorant.
hahaha.
Well some of the comments above strongly suggested that at least certain Japanese people in the States have a bone to pick about Japanese words.
hahaha.
Well some of the comments above strongly suggested that at least certain Japanese people in the States have a bone to pick about Japanese words.
I don't think "Japanese people in the States" have a bone to pick about Japanese words.
I'm not Japanese and I PERSONALLY hate the way this PARTICULAR word is pronounced. Mostly because I think "carry-okie" sounds totally stupid.
That would be STOO - PID.
I don't think "Japanese people in the States" have a bone to pick about Japanese words.
I'm not Japanese and I PERSONALLY hate the way this PARTICULAR word is pronounced. Mostly because I think "carry-okie" sounds totally stupid.
That would be STOO - PID.
If Japanese people in the States have such a big bone to pick about how Americans pronounce Japanese words, then they really should move back to Japan where people will pronounce it correctly.
Why care how non-Japanese pronounce sake, Hiroshima or whatever else? Frankly, Jesse has a point. When they go out of their way to attempt pronouncing it correctly, it sounds affected and usually it gets even more butchered than before.
If Japanese people in the States have such a big bone to pick about how Americans pronounce Japanese words, then they really should move back to Japan where people will pronounce it correctly.
Why care how non-Japanese pronounce sake, Hiroshima or whatever else? Frankly, Jesse has a point. When they go out of their way to attempt pronouncing it correctly, it sounds affected and usually it gets even more butchered than before.
I got it!
"Keh" (Not "key." Not "ke." Not "kay.")
Sorry I'm a bad phonetic speller!
I got it!
"Keh" (Not "key." Not "ke." Not "kay.")
Sorry I'm a bad phonetic speller!
Deke: you are right about "ke"
I was making it point that it wasn't "key" and then I typed out O-K instead of O-KE. Which even now looks wrong. Hmm.
I'll update regardless.
Deke: you are right about "ke"
I was making it point that it wasn't "key" and then I typed out O-K instead of O-KE. Which even now looks wrong. Hmm.
I'll update regardless.
Sake as "saki"
Udon as "Ooh-dawn"
Daikon as "Die-Kahn"
Hiroshima as "HeROSHshumuh"
PS the last syllable of karaoke should be pronounced like the KE in ketchup.
Sake as "saki"
Udon as "Ooh-dawn"
Daikon as "Die-Kahn"
Hiroshima as "HeROSHshumuh"
PS the last syllable of karaoke should be pronounced like the KE in ketchup.
In theory I should speak fluent Mandarin but I still can't pronounce that last name "Zhang." From my understanding, it's supposed to sound something like "Drahng" but I'll admit when speaking English I'll still say "Zayng."
I don't even pronounce my own last name correctly. When introducing myself, I still pronounce it exactly as it'd sound like it'd be pronounced by an American. Which is utterly wrong but it's better than me visibly struggling with the correct Chinese pronunciation when it's MY own name.
Sigh.
In theory I should speak fluent Mandarin but I still can't pronounce that last name "Zhang." From my understanding, it's supposed to sound something like "Drahng" but I'll admit when speaking English I'll still say "Zayng."
I don't even pronounce my own last name correctly. When introducing myself, I still pronounce it exactly as it'd sound like it'd be pronounced by an American. Which is utterly wrong but it's better than me visibly struggling with the correct Chinese pronunciation when it's MY own name.
Sigh.
There are a few regions in the US (and maybe all) that I will not forgive for butchering Spanish words. First, most of the US was either Spanish controlled and/or Mexico at one point, so the words have been in the States for years. Second, since the US has no official language... de facto there are two, English and Spanish. I'm not expecting people to say them perfectly with a perfect native accent, but at least just make an attempt.
EGs:
Californians generally get them right, but of course:
Los Angeles (too late to change it, sigh, but at least we don't say Los Angeleez anymore)
Point Reyes, the north Bay Area point is often pronounced: Point Rays. Wrong. Reyes, two syllables, no excuses, I don't care how much money you make.
Vallejo, Va-lay-ho. no. Vai-ye-jo. At least the J is right or I'd be from a city called San Josey.
Texas and the Southwest. WTF guys, Mexico is RIGHT THERE and yet...
Queso, pronounced fine albeit with a twang, yet the meaning is off. Queso means cheese in Spanish, but in the SW it means hot nacho "cheese" for dipping, which is gross.
Guadalupe road in Austin. it's not Gwadaloop.
I could go on... to bring it back to Asian languages... I always felt bad for the one of our customers we worked with last named Zhang... which was of course pronounced by any non chinese as "Zand" rhymes with bang instead of the proper Jahng. *sigh*
There are a few regions in the US (and maybe all) that I will not forgive for butchering Spanish words. First, most of the US was either Spanish controlled and/or Mexico at one point, so the words have been in the States for years. Second, since the US has no official language... de facto there are two, English and Spanish. I'm not expecting people to say them perfectly with a perfect native accent, but at least just make an attempt.
EGs:
Californians generally get them right, but of course:
Los Angeles (too late to change it, sigh, but at least we don't say Los Angeleez anymore)
Point Reyes, the north Bay Area point is often pronounced: Point Rays. Wrong. Reyes, two syllables, no excuses, I don't care how much money you make.
Vallejo, Va-lay-ho. no. Vai-ye-jo. At least the J is right or I'd be from a city called San Josey.
Texas and the Southwest. WTF guys, Mexico is RIGHT THERE and yet...
Queso, pronounced fine albeit with a twang, yet the meaning is off. Queso means cheese in Spanish, but in the SW it means hot nacho "cheese" for dipping, which is gross.
Guadalupe road in Austin. it's not Gwadaloop.
I could go on... to bring it back to Asian languages... I always felt bad for the one of our customers we worked with last named Zhang... which was of course pronounced by any non chinese as "Zand" rhymes with bang instead of the proper Jahng. *sigh*
Actually, about half of all Japanese vocabulary are words imported directly from other languages re-packaged with a typical Japanese accent so that it sounds, well, Japanese. To be fair then, we should all voice objections against the way the Japanese pronounce so many American-English words.
I think how a State-side individual pronounces karaoke reflects his or her upbringing. International students from Asia will say "ka-ra-okay" a little better aligned with the way Japanese pronounce it. An Asian American born and bred in the midwest will likely call it "carrie-okie" like all their heartland-of-America type friends. Personally, I'll say "carrie-okie" because that's the way I've been raised to pronounce it. I'm a product of my environment, for better or worse.
Actually, about half of all Japanese vocabulary are words imported directly from other languages re-packaged with a typical Japanese accent so that it sounds, well, Japanese. To be fair then, we should all voice objections against the way the Japanese pronounce so many American-English words.
I think how a State-side individual pronounces karaoke reflects his or her upbringing. International students from Asia will say "ka-ra-okay" a little better aligned with the way Japanese pronounce it. An Asian American born and bred in the midwest will likely call it "carrie-okie" like all their heartland-of-America type friends. Personally, I'll say "carrie-okie" because that's the way I've been raised to pronounce it. I'm a product of my environment, for better or worse.
Yes, I agree with Mike on this one. Words get basterdized all the time as they cross borders. I don't think people intentionally try to mangle "foreign" words, it's simply a matter of what people are phonetically trained to hear and say. Humans lose the ability to hear and say the full range of phonetical sounds between the age of 5-8 (earlier for boys, later for girls). That why people who immigrate to the US as young children can sound native born American, while those who come in their tween years often have mild accents even after living in the country for 30-some years. As much as I try, I know I'll never be able to get my caucasian partner to properly say my Korean name. I'm okay with that. And anyway, it's fun saying words like banana and butter like they do in South Korean - Bhah-nha-nha and Bhah-dah
Yes, I agree with Mike on this one. Words get basterdized all the time as they cross borders. I don't think people intentionally try to mangle "foreign" words, it's simply a matter of what people are phonetically trained to hear and say. Humans lose the ability to hear and say the full range of phonetical sounds between the age of 5-8 (earlier for boys, later for girls). That why people who immigrate to the US as young children can sound native born American, while those who come in their tween years often have mild accents even after living in the country for 30-some years. As much as I try, I know I'll never be able to get my caucasian partner to properly say my Korean name. I'm okay with that. And anyway, it's fun saying words like banana and butter like they do in South Korean - Bhah-nha-nha and Bhah-dah
To be fair, other countries & societies appropriate English words into their own pronunciations too. Off the top of my head, "San Francisco" is "San Fan-cee" in Cantonese. I don't recall the Japanese pronunciations of English words, but they have their own style as well. This just seems to be what happens when words are imported from other cultures.
To be fair, other countries & societies appropriate English words into their own pronunciations too. Off the top of my head, "San Francisco" is "San Fan-cee" in Cantonese. I don't recall the Japanese pronunciations of English words, but they have their own style as well. This just seems to be what happens when words are imported from other cultures.
I agree with Jesse!. Karaoke is just one of those words that has gained popular acceptance into the English vocabulary and has thus been given its own unique way of being pronounced. Eventually there will come a point where it will be so accepted that only Japanese purists would pronounce it the Japanese way. Think of saying Pa-ree instead of Pa-ris nowadays in the States. Just weird.
But while I do tend to pronounce Japanese words properly, I don't hold it against Americans that don't because, while I'm familiar with Japanese pronunciation, I'd probably fuck up any other language =P
Words that irritate me though include:
Audi - Ow-Dee (correct way) or Au-Dee (just plain wrong)?
Omega - O-mE-ga (English way ala James Bond) or O-Meh-ga (American way)?
Nokia - Knock-ya (Finnish way) or No-Key-ah (American way)?
Japanese cities such as a Tokyo and Kyoto - Toe-Kyo (Japanese) or Toe-Kee-Oh (American), Kyoh-toh (Japanese) or Kee-yo-toe (American)
list goes on and on and on ^_^;
I agree with Jesse!. Karaoke is just one of those words that has gained popular acceptance into the English vocabulary and has thus been given its own unique way of being pronounced. Eventually there will come a point where it will be so accepted that only Japanese purists would pronounce it the Japanese way. Think of saying Pa-ree instead of Pa-ris nowadays in the States. Just weird.
But while I do tend to pronounce Japanese words properly, I don't hold it against Americans that don't because, while I'm familiar with Japanese pronunciation, I'd probably fuck up any other language =P
Words that irritate me though include:
Audi - Ow-Dee (correct way) or Au-Dee (just plain wrong)?
Omega - O-mE-ga (English way ala James Bond) or O-Meh-ga (American way)?
Nokia - Knock-ya (Finnish way) or No-Key-ah (American way)?
Japanese cities such as a Tokyo and Kyoto - Toe-Kyo (Japanese) or Toe-Kee-Oh (American), Kyoh-toh (Japanese) or Kee-yo-toe (American)
list goes on and on and on ^_^;
I think the word has been completely transferred to the English language, especially in the 'States and well, we speak English in a lazy way; vowels all start sounding the same and we really stress our arrrzzzzzzz...
I try to pronounce it the "real" way, but I also don't want to be coming off as the most annoyingly PC guy in the room. Reminds me of that SNL sketch with Jimmy Smits and everyone trying to pronounce all the food they wanted to order out for in the "native" way. Burrito became an exaggerated boo-ree-toh. And who can forget the way Ross from Friends (yes I'm an NBC whore apparently) would insist on pronounce karate like KA-RA-TAY.
The problem is of course, most non-Japanese don't know how to pronounce Japanese. In English we want to stress syllables, usually the second, but the Japanese stress the first and only subtly at best. So the words simple roll off the tongue in a respectable way... not sure you can expect us lazy Americans to get those right...
Excuse me while I head out to the pa-TEE-oh to munch on my croySAHN while listening to folks sing ka-ra-oke. :-)
I think the word has been completely transferred to the English language, especially in the 'States and well, we speak English in a lazy way; vowels all start sounding the same and we really stress our arrrzzzzzzz...
I try to pronounce it the "real" way, but I also don't want to be coming off as the most annoyingly PC guy in the room. Reminds me of that SNL sketch with Jimmy Smits and everyone trying to pronounce all the food they wanted to order out for in the "native" way. Burrito became an exaggerated boo-ree-toh. And who can forget the way Ross from Friends (yes I'm an NBC whore apparently) would insist on pronounce karate like KA-RA-TAY.
The problem is of course, most non-Japanese don't know how to pronounce Japanese. In English we want to stress syllables, usually the second, but the Japanese stress the first and only subtly at best. So the words simple roll off the tongue in a respectable way... not sure you can expect us lazy Americans to get those right...
Excuse me while I head out to the pa-TEE-oh to munch on my croySAHN while listening to folks sing ka-ra-oke. :-)
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