Excited
So, were you forced as a kid to play the piano or the violin? And more importantly, would you pass that onto your kids? Niniane was, and she didn’t like it one bit:
The merits of learning a musical instrument are oft repeated by the well-intentioned parent: learning discipline, enjoyment later in life, Mozart makes you smarter. Rarely have I heard anyone discuss the damage done by forcing the kid. I can state it in one sentence: By thwarting the child’s natural inclinations, day in and day out, you teach him to stifle his intuition.
I e-mailed the link to all of the writers on 8Asians, and a lot of conversation came from it; so much so that it deserved its own blog entry.
Ernie: Oh, I have SO mixed feelings about this. I played piano at 4, violin at 10. I played piano until I was in high school and burnt out at 15, but ended up playing for the church choir and a HS jazz choir. I have no regrets about doing it, honestly – it’s kind of nice to be able to read music and be able to plink out a melody on the piano, something which other people take for granted. But not if I was young.
Ben: amusingly enough, I started late. 11 (piano) and 12 (violin). Quit after senior year of high school since I had college to look forward to prep for. lol. I’m actually looking to start composing music again now if I can find the time to do it. Wouldn’t mind picking up electric guitar either. I think overall, if you look at a lot of asians, even like pop stars like Jay Chou… we all on some level took up those instruments in some fashion. Not really sure why, but it does teach discipline if not anything else.
Jen: …my mom had us take music lessons so that we wouldn’t regret it like she does. i started playing piano at 4, clarinet at age 8, and violin at age 13 … I did really feel sad one time at a youth orchestra audition, as my sister and i were warming up (we were in junior high), we saw a girl warming up on her cello in the corner, and her mom yelling at her in chinese…the poor girl had tears running down her cheeks. … my mom couldn’t stop staring…and she constantly asked us if she was that bad. i think it’s all about how you handle it with your kids….if obviously they don’t have talent or willingness to want to do music at all…move on, we can’t have everyone playing the violin. no kid will like practicing, but i think there are some life lessons to be learned from sitting down and doing something in order to accomplish a larger goal, even if it’s unpleasant.
oh, and parents should also tell their teenage kids…there are lots of cute boys in high school/youth orchestras. both times i went to prom with dates from orchestra. i’m just sayin’.
Efren: yeah, i think this is a pan-asian thing, because my parents made me do the piano for about a year, but then quit after they realized how expensive it was. the piano just sat there collecting dust for over 20 years until my cousin finally bought it from my dad so that her daughter can learn … i was fairly good at it, but relieved when my parents made me stop it.
the piano playing did become pretty useful when i was college and realized i could sight read when i was singing for UCR’s chamber singers. i’m still not too crazy about the piano, but i wish i had the time (and money) to do singing lessons and sing in a classical choir…
John: I was never really good, and only had 1 year of lessons. My mom always regretted that I never learned the piano. Whenever she sees me type (I can type fast – at least faster than her), she thinks I could have been a terrific piano player.
Andy: Hahaha. All my relatives keep saying that I have piano hands because my hands are big and fingers are “long and powerful” so they say….. don’t ask me….just imagine a bunch of old aunties saying this in broken engrish. “soooo loooohhng and powwwerfolll”
… Because of my exposure to music at a young age, I now have an appreciation for music. I think even if the kid doesn’t become the next yo-yo ma or piano legend, the exposure is enough to justify the piano/violin lessons – at least that’s what I think. So, to my future son/daughter – Your ass is going to be in Piano and Violin lessons….and chinese school, martial arts, and after school programs. >=)
Xxxtine: I think the big thing is not for the parents to brow beat the children into playing something they’re not interested in. Sure, you’ve got to learn the basics – but for me, there was no goal in mind. I wasn’t learning pop music, I was just learning classical – which to a tween is incredibly boring. I also think that parents often get wrapped up in the technicality of playing an instrument and forget that music is a form of expression and creativity. I don’t think I was even asked if I wanted to play, I was just …. Sent.
Nicole: I started when I was.. I guess 8 or 9 years old, stopped around age 12 because the piano tutor fled to become a tour guide around the world. I tried to pick it up again in college, but the college schedule was so not conducive to intense practice sessions. And yeah, I hated practicing. HATED it with a vengeance. It’s nice to be able to read music and stuff, but I kinda wish I had more than just 3-4 years of training.
Also, even though I know this isn’t just isolated to Asian parents, I have to say I think the typical Asian parent is much more demanding in this area than most. Underline the “typical” part of course.
So what do you think?
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2xamai
My parents both emigrated here from Taiwan, and had me start piano when I was three. To be honest though, I liked the beginning classes and showing people how good I was becoming at the instrument, but I absolutely hated practicing - my mom often sat next to me and made me play for several years.
However, I'm glad that I was put through classical training, because I grew to have pride in being excellent at what I was doing (especially when I decided to randomly play for fun before music class at school and shocked my music teacher and the entire class... ). Call it a bit of a show-off sort of mentality, but as a child it was something that gave me a lot of self confidence, and that was what made me keep practicing. In fact, the way my mom made me keep playing was by threatening to make me quit.
None of the actual musical, expressive aspects really came to mind until I was in my early teens, and I think that was when I actually started to appreciate having a classical training. I think the difference though is that my mom was a professional musician, and so she was able to give me pointers on musicality and such, though she started giving them to me before I reached the age of ten, and so those all went over my head. Her background was that growing up, taking music lessons was a privilege that she only got if she was top in her class (which she wasn't), so she wanted to make sure that all the kids in my family got that training from an early age.
To be honest, I think that my being pushed into classical music at a young age was more a musician aspect more than an Asian one, though my mom did also have the objective of teaching us discipline, and the good thing was that at least I liked it, and continued on through college of my own accord. It's very funny seeing my brother go through the same process, and I've often talked with my mom about how it was for me as opposed to my brother - for a while, I was kind of her interpretor to my brother in explaining why he had to practice. I'm really thankful that she put me through classical music, because I really can't imagine my life without it, and I know that as a child I would not have practiced on my own without her sitting there telling me to practice.
Plus, having all the theory background makes for hilarious conversations about perfect pitch and solfege and lets us mess with other instruments (including guitar and drums, though no electric bass yet sadly because my mom didn't want to deal with an amp), and my brother has also become a metalhead (imagine my poor old Asian dad with him at a Metallica concert on the floor!). Maybe for us who became musicophiles, having the classical training was really a blessing because of what it enabled us to do, and I can't thank my parents enough for it.
dialgaxoid
From the day I entered elementary school, my mom told me that I would be playing an instrument throughout school until I graduate. Unfortunately, my birthday is in June, so I can't quit at semester time. I have tried to quit various times, but have been threatened that my life would be, "living hell" if I tried to circumvent my mothers dictations. I am now in second semester of 10th grade and have finally had it with this bulls***. I told my mom that I am ready for the "living hell", and will not be attending band and will dispose of my instrument next year if it remains on my schedule. I have expressed extreme disinterest in playing an instrument since the second week of 5th grade. Sorry for getting so into it, but my mom is really angering. It's like suing a family member. You care about them, but can't nearly stand to have fun with them. I try to keep it diplomatic and not talk about the issue, but I am constantly resenting her micromanagement.
I think Andy is going to end up ruining his kids' lives.
Vancouver Perspective:
It seems to me the "Asian" approach to playing the piano is one of mechanical approach rather than that of artistry and truly feeling the music. I think this is a cultural thing. Although there are exceptions this stereotype seems pretty accurate. It was the same in university, why think with your own words when you can simply "memorize" the book passages to write down on one's exam - not too popular with the Profs.
I encountered one young Chinese kid in the music store and his ego was bigger than his talent. Although he did compliment my playing I felt he could take a course in humility and how rude it was NOT to brag. But of course, we have many young little emperors being raised here. It makes the truly gifted and humble Asian kids - like with ALL RACES - stand out.
Chinese as a culture tend to be very competitive. This is NOT A RACIST COMMENT but a CULTURAL observation. I recall one women, when I was quietly trying out new piano pieces for purchase, try to catch my eye and proceed to outplay me. Yawn.
Many stereotypes about how Asian kids are raised are generally true, at least here in one of the largest Asian enclaves in North America. Kids are either neglected (some parents live abroad and leave highschool kids alone in their mega mansions -very sad) and spoiled with good and/or cash, or they are raised with an iron fist. The sweetest and most humble ones get our warmest hellos in the elevator where we live.
I remember one Asian man we were quite friendly with in our building, who wanted me to tutor his daughter, when I politely declined due to a variety of private family medical conditions/and work time, he was insulted. It didn't seem to concern him that we had important family matters that was taking up all of our time. According to him - it's only an hour a week. Now he avoids us. What a selfish man.
If Asian parents push their kids into music forcefully, I think it is merely a reflection of attempting to acquire what is perceived as "status". Status to some people is more important than happiness.
Let's see here...both my parents are third generation, and they never really had me take lessons in anything recreational unless if I wanted to. Flag football (at age six) and soccer (at age eleven) were things I took, because I wanted to (I never really continued with them). And sometime in elementary school/middle school, I wanted to try out violin, because I liked the sound. Apparently, it wasn't a big part of my life, because I only remember about three lessons. :P (I quit after a few months.)
What my parents did have me take however was art lessons, since I'm artistically inclined. I think I enjoyed it for the first few years, then after having been to about three places for lessons, I started to get tired of it, since I felt I wasn't learning anything.
Many parents on the West Coast especially those in the second and third generation ones in Asian areas like the Bay Area, LA / Orange County and Sacramento tend to encourage their kids to participate in sports (Asian basketball leagues, martial arts and golf).
My parents actually encouraged participation in sports like track and basketball and the fighting arts instead of music. My mom didn't want me to get my butt kicked by the white racists in my school.
I regret not having learned how to play the piano / keyboard.
It might be a generational and geographical trend.
let's be fair - it's really about parenting style.
with any good discipline, be it music or sports or anything, it's all about how the parents provide the opportunity. the "stage mom" or any dictator attitude would ruin a kid enjoying any hobby, not just music.
as a piano student:
i lived in the generation of the movie and tv series FAME. i was a quiet little chinese girl and piano lessons saved my life bc it gave me a channel for expressing my moodiness outside of a repressive chinese family. my russian jewish piano teacher and my other piano teachers and other piano students showed me there were different people out there and i had options beyond what my parents told me.
as a piano teacher:
in high school, my orchestra teacher (where i played violin and viola) encouraged me to be a piano teacher. my piano students (kids and adults) thought it was a hoot to have a tiny teenage asian piano teacher. i retired as a piano teacher in college when i had to consolidate my work hours.
Regarding eddy's semi-related comment: I wouldn't mind do a posting on APA and sports. I have a lot experience in this area, having done sports, having kids who do sports, and having coached Asian-American kids in different sports for a number of years.
Regarding eddy's semi-related comment: I wouldn't mind do a posting on APA and sports. I have a lot experience in this area, having done sports, having kids who do sports, and having coached Asian-American kids in different sports for a number of years.
I went to a piano music school for 10 years, and played trumpet and brass instruments for 9. I am eternally grateful to parents for giving me those opportunites. I can really enjoy KDFC like Akrypti, and I can sightread and sing music because of that. Band in particular was really really fun. I took a lot of trips in marching band which were usually a blast. One of my Asian-american friends used his knowledge of music to quickly learn guitar, and in college he was in a rock band. As a result, he got laid a lot more than me. Orders and orders of magnitude more than me :-(. Who said that music lessons don't pay off!
I am making my kids learn music. I didn't give much choice in instrument (piano) to my daughter, but I let my older son choose what instrument he wanted (trumpet). My younger son will get to choose also when the time comes. One nice thing is that my daughter's teacher lets them learn more popular music, which can stimulate their own interest and not let me nag so much to practice. It was annoying, though, after my daughter saw Titanic, she learned "My Heart Will Go On" on her own and has been playing it over and over and over...
I find it sad that people weren't allowed or weren't taught jazz for piano. Some of the highlights for me as a piano player was being in the school jazz band. I had to teach myself chords, although I have to say that music theory I learned is really really helpful for learning jazz. In general, playing in groups is a lot more fun then playing solo, which can be kind of depressing after a while (especially for piano players).
I went to a piano music school for 10 years, and played trumpet and brass instruments for 9. I am eternally grateful to parents for giving me those opportunites. I can really enjoy KDFC like Akrypti, and I can sightread and sing music because of that. Band in particular was really really fun. I took a lot of trips in marching band which were usually a blast. One of my Asian-american friends used his knowledge of music to quickly learn guitar, and in college he was in a rock band. As a result, he got laid a lot more than me. Orders and orders of magnitude more than me :-(. Who said that music lessons don't pay off!
I am making my kids learn music. I didn't give much choice in instrument (piano) to my daughter, but I let my older son choose what instrument he wanted (trumpet). My younger son will get to choose also when the time comes. One nice thing is that my daughter's teacher lets them learn more popular music, which can stimulate their own interest and not let me nag so much to practice. It was annoying, though, after my daughter saw Titanic, she learned "My Heart Will Go On" on her own and has been playing it over and over and over...
I find it sad that people weren't allowed or weren't taught jazz for piano. Some of the highlights for me as a piano player was being in the school jazz band. I had to teach myself chords, although I have to say that music theory I learned is really really helpful for learning jazz. In general, playing in groups is a lot more fun then playing solo, which can be kind of depressing after a while (especially for piano players).
I'm deeply indebted to my parents for providing me with piano lessons since the age of 4 and violin since the age of 7. Those music lessons taught me everything I need to know to succeed in life. I'm more disciplined, more methodical in thinking, more organized, have better hand eye coordination, communicate and write better, do better at math, even appreciate 102.1 KDFC better.
Like the time the DJ on KDFC announced the wrong song title to the song and I could call in and correct them and they could then announce again the mistake. "It was by Max Bruch. MAX BRUCH! How do you not know Bruch when you hear it? Idiots."
I first thirsted for competition, to always come out first, through music. I also learned it was okay if I didn't come out first as long as I put in my all---through music.
Finally, it breaks my heart to know the extent my parents would self-sacrifice just to provide me the best violin, the best teachers, private lessons, etc. After working insane hours all week, instead of relaxing on their weekends, they drove me frantically here and there to various symphony rehearsals, auditions, and what not, all over the state, and many times all over the east coast. That kind of parental dedication makes me wonder how I'll ever be able to pass on the same to my own children. After a long day of work, instead of resting or spending time to himself, my father sat on the piano bench by my side helping me through etudes, patiently teaching me the right method to practice hard runs.
For parents who don't hug and kiss and say "I love you," music lessons were my parents' way of showing me just how important I am to them, even at the sacrifice of their own sanity.
HERE's the funny bit ...
So the parents force the child to do piano ... and they do for a number of years and actually start to take a real liking to it ... but instead of doing something like becoming a concert pianist ... they want to do pop or jazz and pursue it as a career. - To which they are then shown the Biology and Chemistry textbooks.
The root of the problem is right there in the question's phrasing.
Asian kids shouldn't be forced to play music. Asian kids should be taught to love music, and to know that being able to create music themselves is one of the greater joys in life.
Too many Asian parents have this "we know what's best for you, so do this and you'll thank us later" attitude.
My piano teacher used to stick a sharpened pencil under my wrist so that I would keep it from falling below the invisible line of perfect posture. And those stories about being slapped by a ruler? SO TRUE!
grace said: "I wanted to learn jazz piano and I also wanted to take guitar lessons. My mom said those things were for druggies and losers."
LOLOL... soooo true
I played both the trumpet and the piano when I was a kid. While I didn't necessarily enjoy my piano lessons back then, I am grateful for the opportunity in retrospect. My parents busted their ass to buy a decent piano and provide me and my sister with five years worth of lessons. Too bad I don't have a whole lot to show for it, as I don't know how to play anything anymore. But at least my parents have a bunch of piano trophies sitting in their living room for them to admire.
On a semi-related note, I think 8Asians should also do a posting on APA families and sports. In other words, do APA parents ever force their kids to play sports the way Caucausian parents do? (It's a generalization, I know.) While being forced to learn how to play a musical instrument seems pretty common, I don't usually hear about the same thing when it come to sports.
Damn, man. Memories. I was forced to play piano from age 6 to 14. I remember being physically dragged to the piano and slapped when I refused to play. I was entered into piano competitions (and won a few at the state level). I really didn't mind learning music - it was just the type of music I was being forced to learn. I wanted to learn jazz piano and I also wanted to take guitar lessons. My mom said those things were for druggies and losers. I got brave enough to say "fuck this shit" in high school, and now I can't play two notes!
(Usually I post silly snarky things, but the above paragraph wasn't an attempt at hipster irony or whatever the kids call it these days. It is a true story.)
Well they say music increases your math skills, right?
Bucky: It's an "Asian-American" thing because Asian-Americans disproportionately buy pianos compared to the general population, and in some areas are supposedly the only thing keep piano stores going. (Note: while I have seen these kinds of stat sbefore, the only place I could find similar stats cited is on one of Arthur Hu's indexes http://www.arthurhu.com/index/asianam.htm). I'd say it's more of a cultural thing than a racial thing.
ernie, that photo just kills me. hilarious. so cute yet so tragic.
What does this have to do with Asians?
Should Caucasian kids be forced to play music? Should Asian kids be forced to play sports? Should African-American kids be forced to take after-school tutoring classes? Any race parents can make their kids do extracurricular activities. I think the more appropriate question should be: should parents force kids to participate in extracurricular activities? It doesn't really have much to do with race.
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[...] funny thing occurred in the comment section regarding the previous blog post on Asian parents making their kids play musical instruments; a tangent topic was brought up about taking their kids out for sports teams. From Eddy: …do [...]