Excited
There is an interesting story in The New York Times a week or so ago told by a Chinese-American mother, Vivian Toy, on a two week vacation with her kids and her white husband in Beijing titled, “Stopping Traffic in the People’s Republic:”
“…a young [Chinese] woman pulled down her antipollution mask and stared, open-mouthed, at my 7-year-old son, Patrick. She didn’t seem dangerous, just amazed, so I let the moment pass and we moved along to the next stop on our tour. But the next day, during a visit to the Great Wall, my maternal defenses kicked in when another woman approached us. Without asking permission, she sidled up to my 11-year-old son, Aidan, and draped her arm around him. Her husband was about to snap a quick photograph when I shouted furiously at her in halting Mandarin to get away from my son. By then, it had become clear why my children were attracting so much attention. They look Chinese, but not exactly. They look Western, but not quite. What they really look like is what they are: a blend of me, a Chinese-American, and my husband, a blond 6-footer of English and Irish descent.”
In a country that is 93% Han Chinese, there aren’t exactly a lot of bi-racial children. Ms. Toy did say that even in New York City, she had gotten questions from strangers who asked her kids, perhaps uncomfortably and unpolitely, “What are you?”
I have a Japanese-British friend from college who sort of looked Japanese when I first met him, I thought “Chick” did not sound very Japanese to me! I had a co-worker once who I wondered was bi-racial, since she had a Japanese last name and maybe could have been hapa. Later I found out that she was married to a Japanese-American, and she often said a lot of people who met her for the first time were surprised to meet a white woman with a Japanese last name.
No doubt, as more inter-racial marriages occur, the question of “What are you?” will increasingly occur with one’s off spring. The stereotypes or expectations we might associate with simply a last name might surprise us once you meet someone in person, rather than converse with the over the phone and email.
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*correction
But donu00e2u0080u0099t blame it it all on asian's who do have this idea of u00e2u0080u0098white is rightu00e2u0080u0099, they are merely reflecting the erroneous beliefs in mainstream society, that is constructed on social racism.
They just need a little more self esteem and education.
*correction
But donu00e2u0080u0099t blame it it all on asian's who do have this idea of u00e2u0080u0098white is rightu00e2u0080u0099, they are merely reflecting the erroneous beliefs in mainstream society, that is constructed on social racism.
They just need a little more self esteem and education.
I find this idea s 'mix kids being more beautiful' carries an extreme prejudiced undertone.
We are talking about humans here and in that respect, ourselves and our parents who are asian too,
People need to be reminded that we are not cross breeding animals trying to get that mix nor are we making cocktail drinks.
Therefore some people should be committing that error when they are looking upon children.
Children are beautiful because they are innocent and youthful. NOT because they are of mixed race.
I know many people see beautiful half models in the media but let's not be blind to the fact that they were hand picked. There is no guarantee that a person who has kids with a white person will bear beautiful kids judged on 'mix race appearance'. See the ignorance in that?
For that reason I think these are superficial ideas, It saddens me when asians can't see any self worth or value in their ethnicity and follow popular mainstream views that 'half is hot'.
But don't blame asian do have this idea of 'white is right', they are merely reflecting the erroneous beliefs of mainstream society that is constructed by social racism, they just a little more self esteem and education.
Some you might think I am overly critical but I've heard these ideas many times before and I could only think of this as just another byproduct of social inequality and colonial assimilation.
Wherever this idea came from, it's definitely not something tthat originated from asian's themselves.
I find this idea s 'mix kids being more beautiful' carries an extreme prejudiced undertone.
We are talking about humans here and in that respect, ourselves and our parents who are asian too,
People need to be reminded that we are not cross breeding animals trying to get that mix nor are we making cocktail drinks.
Therefore some people should be committing that error when they are looking upon children.
Children are beautiful because they are innocent and youthful. NOT because they are of mixed race.
I know many people see beautiful half models in the media but let's not be blind to the fact that they were hand picked. There is no guarantee that a person who has kids with a white person will bear beautiful kids judged on 'mix race appearance'. See the ignorance in that?
For that reason I think these are superficial ideas, It saddens me when asians can't see any self worth or value in their ethnicity and follow popular mainstream views that 'half is hot'.
But don't blame asian do have this idea of 'white is right', they are merely reflecting the erroneous beliefs of mainstream society that is constructed by social racism, they just a little more self esteem and education.
Some you might think I am overly critical but I've heard these ideas many times before and I could only think of this as just another byproduct of social inequality and colonial assimilation.
Wherever this idea came from, it's definitely not something tthat originated from asian's themselves.
Too much BS back and forth!
Too much BS back and forth!
Concerning Asian American politics, don't go discounting The Internets as a completely useless medium. 2 out of those 5 examples you gave are internet-based or known because of the internet. Fallout specializes in blogs and podcasts. Would we know WongFu productions if their videos weren't virally spread through YouTube?
Organizing workshops to discuss the issues and current state of Asian American politics takes up time and money and isn't readily accessible for every activist in the country. Doing that shit on the internet is (mostly) free and damn near instantaneous and accessible for everyone with an internet connection versus the 800 bucks for a plane ticket.
So jaewhan, think D or lopes has the time to start making feel-good mini-movies, or shucking out brand t-shirts? What about press kits? We need to start affecting the REAL WORLD, y'know.
Concerning Asian American politics, don't go discounting The Internets as a completely useless medium. 2 out of those 5 examples you gave are internet-based or known because of the internet. Fallout specializes in blogs and podcasts. Would we know WongFu productions if their videos weren't virally spread through YouTube?
Organizing workshops to discuss the issues and current state of Asian American politics takes up time and money and isn't readily accessible for every activist in the country. Doing that shit on the internet is (mostly) free and damn near instantaneous and accessible for everyone with an internet connection versus the 800 bucks for a plane ticket.
So jaewhan, think D or lopes has the time to start making feel-good mini-movies, or shucking out brand t-shirts? What about press kits? We need to start affecting the REAL WORLD, y'know.
The Fighting 44's is helping to bring Frank Chin, the Father of Asian American Literature, to Portland. We will be educating people about Frank's life, and Frank will speak to children about the importance of cultural myth. You can check out Frank's own website:
http://chintalks.blogspot.com/2008/05/hello-portla...
If there's anything else you think we should be doing, let me know. We may be talented debators, but we're also open to suggestions.
The Fighting 44's is helping to bring Frank Chin, the Father of Asian American Literature, to Portland. We will be educating people about Frank's life, and Frank will speak to children about the importance of cultural myth. You can check out Frank's own website:
http://chintalks.blogspot.com/2008/05/hello-portla...
If there's anything else you think we should be doing, let me know. We may be talented debators, but we're also open to suggestions.
^ Surely you're not suggesting that the 44's are pompous and self-important!!??
^ Surely you're not suggesting that the 44's are pompous and self-important!!??
Anthony's two Cents; the lady in the article DOES have internalized racism against here own "race"(of chinese people). But even more important is the fetishsizing of white people by many (not all)Asians in Asia, they think whites are a superior human species so they treat them accordingly- its a cultural thing. They should be proud of themselves and not seek out whites or half whites to take pictures with. Just because they are half white doesnt mean they are famous, or important.
And the fighting 44s are all just full of talking debaters who dont actually do anything except talk hot air about how life is unfair-if you visit their website, youll know what i mean . Yes theres racism, yes theres racial sexism and outmarriage of asian women, but what will it accomplish by sitting around and talking on the internet?-anything?
The posters at 44s instead of complaing so much should get up and actually DO something about it in the REAL world, like the people at fallout central, like imaginasian, like kascon, vascon, Wongfu productions,or asiatics.com
Peace.
Anthony
Anthony's two Cents; the lady in the article DOES have internalized racism against here own "race"(of chinese people). But even more important is the fetishsizing of white people by many (not all)Asians in Asia, they think whites are a superior human species so they treat them accordingly- its a cultural thing. They should be proud of themselves and not seek out whites or half whites to take pictures with. Just because they are half white doesnt mean they are famous, or important.
And the fighting 44s are all just full of talking debaters who dont actually do anything except talk hot air about how life is unfair-if you visit their website, youll know what i mean . Yes theres racism, yes theres racial sexism and outmarriage of asian women, but what will it accomplish by sitting around and talking on the internet?-anything?
The posters at 44s instead of complaing so much should get up and actually DO something about it in the REAL world, like the people at fallout central, like imaginasian, like kascon, vascon, Wongfu productions,or asiatics.com
Peace.
Anthony
Bo rightly points out that the world is becoming "multiracial". In that context, contrast and compare the attitudes of the Chinese people to racially mixed societies like Mexico, Brazil, and the Philippines, where the people are a broad spectrum of colors. Instead of being merely curiousities like in China, mixed race people, particularly the lighter ones, are held up as examples of beauty. This phenomenon of "colorism," prevalent also in India, really really iritates me for reasons I'll explain. When I saw that "mixed race kids are cute" comment, while I don't feel there was any malice intended, it really hit home and not in a good way. My kids are all over the map color-wise, as my daughter is darker like me while my sons could pass for being half white. One day my daughter comes home and tells me she wishes she was half white like one of the popular girls at school. She's also jealous that a number of girls are crazy over my light skinned son. This is in a school that is 70% Asian American. It's hard enough dealing with her teenager issues without having to add some left over crazy colonial attitude.
Bo rightly points out that the world is becoming "multiracial". In that context, contrast and compare the attitudes of the Chinese people to racially mixed societies like Mexico, Brazil, and the Philippines, where the people are a broad spectrum of colors. Instead of being merely curiousities like in China, mixed race people, particularly the lighter ones, are held up as examples of beauty. This phenomenon of "colorism," prevalent also in India, really really iritates me for reasons I'll explain. When I saw that "mixed race kids are cute" comment, while I don't feel there was any malice intended, it really hit home and not in a good way. My kids are all over the map color-wise, as my daughter is darker like me while my sons could pass for being half white. One day my daughter comes home and tells me she wishes she was half white like one of the popular girls at school. She's also jealous that a number of girls are crazy over my light skinned son. This is in a school that is 70% Asian American. It's hard enough dealing with her teenager issues without having to add some left over crazy colonial attitude.
I was thinking about the number of people posting, not the same people posting again and again in regards to this post getting comments.
I was thinking about the number of people posting, not the same people posting again and again in regards to this post getting comments.
What are you talking about?
That generally means that if you know you're going to get a certain undesirable reaction, don't do it. Just don't be shocked at the outcome. How does that translate into me having too much time on my hands.
What are you talking about?
That generally means that if you know you're going to get a certain undesirable reaction, don't do it. Just don't be shocked at the outcome. How does that translate into me having too much time on my hands.
Yeah, the woman wants to write in The New York Times to tell the world she is a racist. Maybe her observations were just that, observations.
"If you fight cannibals, expect to be eaten."
Please. You definitely have too much time on your hands. Well, you're entitled to your opinions, but this is a blog I contribute to, so I'm entitled to mine.
I don't think this really is a "fear China" article.
Yeah, the woman wants to write in The New York Times to tell the world she is a racist. Maybe her observations were just that, observations.
"If you fight cannibals, expect to be eaten."
Please. You definitely have too much time on your hands. Well, you're entitled to your opinions, but this is a blog I contribute to, so I'm entitled to mine.
I don't think this really is a "fear China" article.
"Well, I knew this post would get some comments."
If you fight cannibals, expect to be eaten.
"Well, I knew this post would get some comments."
If you fight cannibals, expect to be eaten.
John wrote;
"You are interpreting her comments as racial arrogance. What if she wrote that without any intent of racial arrogance and is completely unaware of what her article being *interpreted* as racial arrogance?"
I too don't see much evidence of racial arrogance. The author even goes so far as to say that in New York her children "....still elicit double-takes here and there....my nephew....has been asked the discomforting question, u00e2u0080u009cWhat are you?"
My problem with the article is that it tries to suggest that the curiosity of the Chinese is somehow a potential ominous portent of future racial strife, and all because people stare at and are friendly with her kids. It's offensive because it suggests that stares and friendly gestures can be compared to the racial harrassment that AA kids continue to experience in the U.S without redress.
In some ways it's just another "fear China because they are not like us" article with a veneer of political correctness because the author is Asian.
John wrote;
"You are interpreting her comments as racial arrogance. What if she wrote that without any intent of racial arrogance and is completely unaware of what her article being *interpreted* as racial arrogance?"
I too don't see much evidence of racial arrogance. The author even goes so far as to say that in New York her children "....still elicit double-takes here and there....my nephew....has been asked the discomforting question, u00e2u0080u009cWhat are you?"
My problem with the article is that it tries to suggest that the curiosity of the Chinese is somehow a potential ominous portent of future racial strife, and all because people stare at and are friendly with her kids. It's offensive because it suggests that stares and friendly gestures can be compared to the racial harrassment that AA kids continue to experience in the U.S without redress.
In some ways it's just another "fear China because they are not like us" article with a veneer of political correctness because the author is Asian.
Racism should never be about the intent but the effect. I thought WE should know better.
Gosh, I don't have time to get to know all the racists in this world personally before I can call out an racist act. Just because I am on line on Memorial Day weekend, doesn't mean i don't have a life :-)
If she truly doesn't know, this is her opportunity to learn. Someone should point this out to her, so she won't act stupid again.
Oh, John, it is just so convenient to say "she didn't mean to" or "we don't know her personally". Doesn't it sound like the kind of excuses all racists use in this country.
"We didn't mean to hurt people's feelings, oh if you chose to interpret it that way, what can I say?". "Oh, it was meant to be a joke"
BS BS!
Racism should never be about the intent but the effect. I thought WE should know better.
Gosh, I don't have time to get to know all the racists in this world personally before I can call out an racist act. Just because I am on line on Memorial Day weekend, doesn't mean i don't have a life :-)
If she truly doesn't know, this is her opportunity to learn. Someone should point this out to her, so she won't act stupid again.
Oh, John, it is just so convenient to say "she didn't mean to" or "we don't know her personally". Doesn't it sound like the kind of excuses all racists use in this country.
"We didn't mean to hurt people's feelings, oh if you chose to interpret it that way, what can I say?". "Oh, it was meant to be a joke"
BS BS!
overseas chinese, Jaehwan,
>u00e2u0080u009d weu00e2u0080u0099re criticizing her racially arrogant attitude towards Asian people, as well as the >superiority complex she seems to feel towards the locals just because she married a >white guy.u00e2u0080u009d
You are interpreting her comments as racial arrogance. What if she wrote that without any intent of racial arrogance and is completely unaware of what her article being *interpreted* as racial arrogance?
We will never truly know unless we get to know the author personally. Of course, the chances that we will ever know her true thoughts and feelings directly are slim.
Well, I knew this post would get some comments :-)
overseas chinese, Jaehwan,
>u00e2u0080u009d weu00e2u0080u0099re criticizing her racially arrogant attitude towards Asian people, as well as the >superiority complex she seems to feel towards the locals just because she married a >white guy.u00e2u0080u009d
You are interpreting her comments as racial arrogance. What if she wrote that without any intent of racial arrogance and is completely unaware of what her article being *interpreted* as racial arrogance?
We will never truly know unless we get to know the author personally. Of course, the chances that we will ever know her true thoughts and feelings directly are slim.
Well, I knew this post would get some comments :-)
What I do find a bit annoying is that someone will post something extremely outrageous or "baiting" and then the mods will complain about things aren't civil. If someone said something to the effect of "Now we know why Asian women date out more, it's because Asian society is inherently sexist," you better believe people are going to chime in with angry responses.
In this case, the idea that interracial offspring somehow makes one more resistant to disease when it's actually used as a defense to justify the author's own relationship and an subtle attempt to give herself a "holier-than-thou" attitude. It really blows my mind how Asian men and some Asian women would actually put up with this type of statement.
What I do find a bit annoying is that someone will post something extremely outrageous or "baiting" and then the mods will complain about things aren't civil. If someone said something to the effect of "Now we know why Asian women date out more, it's because Asian society is inherently sexist," you better believe people are going to chime in with angry responses.
In this case, the idea that interracial offspring somehow makes one more resistant to disease when it's actually used as a defense to justify the author's own relationship and an subtle attempt to give herself a "holier-than-thou" attitude. It really blows my mind how Asian men and some Asian women would actually put up with this type of statement.
Did I ever tell you you're my heeeeeero?
Did I ever tell you you're my heeeeeero?
" we're criticizing her racially arrogant attitude towards Asian people, as well as the superiority complex she seems to feel towards the locals just because she married a white guy."
I agree with Jaehwan.
Sometimes I think 8asians is the "model minority Asian blog". Take that as a compliment :-)
Hey, I was born and raised in Hong Kong. I have met enough Chinese people who act like/ actually think they are better than their fellow Chinese because
1) They speak English
2) They have foreign passports
3) They are married to white people
4) They are educated in the west
Please do not give these people excuse to behave badly. They make the Chinese look bad. I usually would not care what Chinese-Americans do or not do but since this lady's article made its way to the New York Times, I think I should say something. I have advice for Chinese Americans who plan to visit Asia or China, do not act like you are better than the locals because they can spot your act in a hot minute. They might not call your out because you are visiting but they will talk behind your back. My last word, the author doesn't know who her friends are.
" we're criticizing her racially arrogant attitude towards Asian people, as well as the superiority complex she seems to feel towards the locals just because she married a white guy."
I agree with Jaehwan.
Sometimes I think 8asians is the "model minority Asian blog". Take that as a compliment :-)
Hey, I was born and raised in Hong Kong. I have met enough Chinese people who act like/ actually think they are better than their fellow Chinese because
1) They speak English
2) They have foreign passports
3) They are married to white people
4) They are educated in the west
Please do not give these people excuse to behave badly. They make the Chinese look bad. I usually would not care what Chinese-Americans do or not do but since this lady's article made its way to the New York Times, I think I should say something. I have advice for Chinese Americans who plan to visit Asia or China, do not act like you are better than the locals because they can spot your act in a hot minute. They might not call your out because you are visiting but they will talk behind your back. My last word, the author doesn't know who her friends are.
John,
I don't doubt that that is how it is over there. I lived in Asia for a year, and a lot of people go crazy for anything white or half-white. You walk into a restaurant by yourself and they'll serve you; you go with a white friend, and they SERVE you. So both your friend and the author are correct in retelling the events.
However, the commenters and I aren't criticizing the author's retelling of events; we're criticizing her racially arrogant attitude towards Asian people, as well as the superiority complex she seems to feel towards the locals just because she married a white guy.
Ernie (and everyone),
I think Ernie is right; we just have a very different moderation policy at the 44's. It's not to say that all sites should be like ours or yours; they're just very different beasts. At the 44's, we're very liberal with our banning policy. We'd rather have people debate issues than just agree on them, and so we provide that forum. As long as people are intelligent and rely on logic, they're free to talk. Usually, we let the community decide if someone is getting annoying, and then we usually warn once or twice before banning. But as I mentioned, we don't ban all that often.
And as Colin mentions, I'd consider this conversation pretty civil. It's tame by 44's standards.
I also wanted to point out that our style of debate is not just posturing either. Both minbo and makulita, who are guests on your forum and black belts on the 44's, have changed my mind on issues through their skills at presenting and defending arguments. I'm sure I've changed many minds myself. So we do learn a lot from debating.
That guy who posted the statement about 8Asians is a member, but he's not a ranked member. The best way to see how well a person represents our site is to look at their rank in the forum. Our "black belts" are people whom the 44's community endorses, even though we don't always agree with one another (see black belt Dialectic's post today where he debates with black belt Xian). A "black belt" is one who is comfortable with intellectual debate and who has made a significant contribution to the 44's. Makulita, minbo, and I are all black belts. Among the black belts, we don't all agree on everything, though we agree on basic stuff like racism exists, sexism exists, and no race or combination of races is better than another, either through pseudo-scientific "reasoning" or any other reason (which would go against Bo's so far unsupported assertion). Our "senior members" are also high ranks, and though they don't have the official seal, they probably know enough about our site to discuss.
Other than that, I'm glad lots of people are reading our blog, and there are people on our site (including me) who read your blog as well.
Cheap plug, but the Fighting 44's is going to be on FalloutCentral this Sunday. Call in if you want to talk with us!
John,
I don't doubt that that is how it is over there. I lived in Asia for a year, and a lot of people go crazy for anything white or half-white. You walk into a restaurant by yourself and they'll serve you; you go with a white friend, and they SERVE you. So both your friend and the author are correct in retelling the events.
However, the commenters and I aren't criticizing the author's retelling of events; we're criticizing her racially arrogant attitude towards Asian people, as well as the superiority complex she seems to feel towards the locals just because she married a white guy.
Ernie (and everyone),
I think Ernie is right; we just have a very different moderation policy at the 44's. It's not to say that all sites should be like ours or yours; they're just very different beasts. At the 44's, we're very liberal with our banning policy. We'd rather have people debate issues than just agree on them, and so we provide that forum. As long as people are intelligent and rely on logic, they're free to talk. Usually, we let the community decide if someone is getting annoying, and then we usually warn once or twice before banning. But as I mentioned, we don't ban all that often.
And as Colin mentions, I'd consider this conversation pretty civil. It's tame by 44's standards.
I also wanted to point out that our style of debate is not just posturing either. Both minbo and makulita, who are guests on your forum and black belts on the 44's, have changed my mind on issues through their skills at presenting and defending arguments. I'm sure I've changed many minds myself. So we do learn a lot from debating.
That guy who posted the statement about 8Asians is a member, but he's not a ranked member. The best way to see how well a person represents our site is to look at their rank in the forum. Our "black belts" are people whom the 44's community endorses, even though we don't always agree with one another (see black belt Dialectic's post today where he debates with black belt Xian). A "black belt" is one who is comfortable with intellectual debate and who has made a significant contribution to the 44's. Makulita, minbo, and I are all black belts. Among the black belts, we don't all agree on everything, though we agree on basic stuff like racism exists, sexism exists, and no race or combination of races is better than another, either through pseudo-scientific "reasoning" or any other reason (which would go against Bo's so far unsupported assertion). Our "senior members" are also high ranks, and though they don't have the official seal, they probably know enough about our site to discuss.
Other than that, I'm glad lots of people are reading our blog, and there are people on our site (including me) who read your blog as well.
Cheap plug, but the Fighting 44's is going to be on FalloutCentral this Sunday. Call in if you want to talk with us!
jaehwan - well, I think we can have a civil discussion, but 8Asians is not an academic blog dedicated to genetics. I was going to write a response to minbo's post, which I thought was good, but was going to point out some things, but figured, why bother getting into a tit-for-tat discussion on this blog. I'd rather spend more time doing something else.
I had sent this NYTimes article to my high school friend (white/Jewish) who is married to a Chinese women (born and raised in China). His wife and son are currently in China. It so happens that he just emailed me today saying that his wife said (who is visiting her parents in China):
"According to my wife, that is EXACTLY HOW IT IS. Everywhere they go, complete strangers want to hug my son and pick him up and have their picture taken with him. She says that she doesn't get upset by this, but I can't help but worry a bit about him losing any fear of strangers."
So I think some of the vitriolic comments regarding the Chinese-American woman in this New York Times article is a bit misguided in some sense.
jaehwan - well, I think we can have a civil discussion, but 8Asians is not an academic blog dedicated to genetics. I was going to write a response to minbo's post, which I thought was good, but was going to point out some things, but figured, why bother getting into a tit-for-tat discussion on this blog. I'd rather spend more time doing something else.
I had sent this NYTimes article to my high school friend (white/Jewish) who is married to a Chinese women (born and raised in China). His wife and son are currently in China. It so happens that he just emailed me today saying that his wife said (who is visiting her parents in China):
"According to my wife, that is EXACTLY HOW IT IS. Everywhere they go, complete strangers want to hug my son and pick him up and have their picture taken with him. She says that she doesn't get upset by this, but I can't help but worry a bit about him losing any fear of strangers."
So I think some of the vitriolic comments regarding the Chinese-American woman in this New York Times article is a bit misguided in some sense.
Colin: While F44's and 8A's comment policies differ (the rest of the "extreme comment," not so much the "ineffectual liberal tools" bit, would have got rejected on 8A in a heartbeat) I never implied that his comment in particular represented all of the F44s.
Colin: While F44's and 8A's comment policies differ (the rest of the "extreme comment," not so much the "ineffectual liberal tools" bit, would have got rejected on 8A in a heartbeat) I never implied that his comment in particular represented all of the F44s.
Also, Bo, no one is declaring to keep the races pure as you sarcastically claim. They're angry at your belief in faux-science that you seem to hold with so much conviction. Unless these comments are posted by robots, it's impossible not to speak up against ignorance on the internet because it's comparable to speaking up against ignorance in real life.
My buddy said it best (another white guy!). "This idea is pretty much heresy to knowledge."
Like Minbo said, if you want to date to date a white man for whatever reason, fine. Just don't try to intermingle science into it and proclaim that it has some greater scientific purpose that benefits mankind.
Also, Bo, no one is declaring to keep the races pure as you sarcastically claim. They're angry at your belief in faux-science that you seem to hold with so much conviction. Unless these comments are posted by robots, it's impossible not to speak up against ignorance on the internet because it's comparable to speaking up against ignorance in real life.
My buddy said it best (another white guy!). "This idea is pretty much heresy to knowledge."
Like Minbo said, if you want to date to date a white man for whatever reason, fine. Just don't try to intermingle science into it and proclaim that it has some greater scientific purpose that benefits mankind.
Ernie,
What Bo wrote sounds like more of a personal justification for her relationship with a white man rather than evidence based on actual scientific fact. What makes it even worse is that it seems like it's going to drift into the territory of "holier-than-thou" that seems to plague interracial pairings. A great buddy of mine (a white guy!) who is pursuing a PhD in genetic research at MIT always laughs at this type of "Nickelodeon Science."
IE: "I'm so much more special because I'm dating outside my race. I'm so enlightened and you're all so racist for not doing the same."
I actually think this thread has been quite civil and it seems that just one side is reacting in an extreme way. What Minbo said was actually quite well written and breaks the issue down very well.
It's interesting you would take one poster's extreme comment on the 44s to represent everyone on there. I've read posts and comments on both sites and both seem to be open to discussion and debate with very little hostility.
Ernie,
What Bo wrote sounds like more of a personal justification for her relationship with a white man rather than evidence based on actual scientific fact. What makes it even worse is that it seems like it's going to drift into the territory of "holier-than-thou" that seems to plague interracial pairings. A great buddy of mine (a white guy!) who is pursuing a PhD in genetic research at MIT always laughs at this type of "Nickelodeon Science."
IE: "I'm so much more special because I'm dating outside my race. I'm so enlightened and you're all so racist for not doing the same."
I actually think this thread has been quite civil and it seems that just one side is reacting in an extreme way. What Minbo said was actually quite well written and breaks the issue down very well.
It's interesting you would take one poster's extreme comment on the 44s to represent everyone on there. I've read posts and comments on both sites and both seem to be open to discussion and debate with very little hostility.
And this, more or less in a nutshell, is why I've been keeping out of these angry back and forth debates and haven't even put out an official response to some of the accusations that 8A has a passive voice or that we're, to quote one commenter on the F44's, "an ineffectual liberal tool."
I read and respect the posts by the Fighting 44's, but some of the comments on there remind me of the conservative bloggers that were around after 9/11: a place online where people with the same view can sit around and be angrier and angrier together, and when a debate even presented itself the anger and bullying would push differing opinions away. After time, what you get is a very one-sided blog, full of one-sided people. And if me not wanting that on 8A through different means promotes censorship and liberalism, then very well; there are worse things to be judged over.
Because at the end of the day, these conversation threads become less of an actual discussion on the topic at hand and more about an 11th grade debate class, standing and posturing and arguing for the sake of arguing. ON BOTH SIDES. Because there will be absolutely no give and take, because each side maintains absolute certain that their side is right and then the comment becomes "who can respond with the cleverest comment, insulting the other person."
So to everyone: keep debating! Knock yourselves out. At the end of the day, I'll still filter out the "fuck you chinks white pride" commenters that come here to Google as well as the "fuck you crakkkas" and "fuck you whorientals" that I now get on a more consistent basis than I have a month ago. But also know that I also work long days and this comment has indirectly made me late to work and honestly, I'm getting tired of all of this bullshit.
Great! Thanks!
And this, more or less in a nutshell, is why I've been keeping out of these angry back and forth debates and haven't even put out an official response to some of the accusations that 8A has a passive voice or that we're, to quote one commenter on the F44's, "an ineffectual liberal tool."
I read and respect the posts by the Fighting 44's, but some of the comments on there remind me of the conservative bloggers that were around after 9/11: a place online where people with the same view can sit around and be angrier and angrier together, and when a debate even presented itself the anger and bullying would push differing opinions away. After time, what you get is a very one-sided blog, full of one-sided people. And if me not wanting that on 8A through different means promotes censorship and liberalism, then very well; there are worse things to be judged over.
Because at the end of the day, these conversation threads become less of an actual discussion on the topic at hand and more about an 11th grade debate class, standing and posturing and arguing for the sake of arguing. ON BOTH SIDES. Because there will be absolutely no give and take, because each side maintains absolute certain that their side is right and then the comment becomes "who can respond with the cleverest comment, insulting the other person."
So to everyone: keep debating! Knock yourselves out. At the end of the day, I'll still filter out the "fuck you chinks white pride" commenters that come here to Google as well as the "fuck you crakkkas" and "fuck you whorientals" that I now get on a more consistent basis than I have a month ago. But also know that I also work long days and this comment has indirectly made me late to work and honestly, I'm getting tired of all of this bullshit.
Great! Thanks!
I give up...I'm racist and only those who enhance the racial purity of the asian race are right. All of us who fall in love with a blind eye to race and refuse to be bullied are just brainwashed.
Alas, what to do with the fact that the world is being increasingly bi-tri-quad-racial. OMG! We have to stop that now before it becomes impossible to visually tell what a person is!
The horror! The horror!
I give up...I'm racist and only those who enhance the racial purity of the asian race are right. All of us who fall in love with a blind eye to race and refuse to be bullied are just brainwashed.
Alas, what to do with the fact that the world is being increasingly bi-tri-quad-racial. OMG! We have to stop that now before it becomes impossible to visually tell what a person is!
The horror! The horror!
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