Excited
Like most of the girls around me, I spent a good number of my youthful years daydreaming about my wedding day. It was filled with beautiful things and loved ones. It involved a wonderful dress and yummy food. And of course, it involved the man of my dreams. In those daydreams, the MOMD — man of my dreams — was a tall, burly Asian man with dark hair and almond shaped eyes; he would look at me with love in his eyes as I would look at him. I was surrounded by Asians, and I always thought I’d marry an Asian guy.
But fast-forward many years and insert influences of American TV with the rise in popularity of the geeky, nice guy with characters like Ed from Ed, Ben from Knocked-Up, Jim from The Office, and Chuck from Chuck. This is not an exhaustive list, but it sure helped catapult geeky guys from the geeky pool into the hottie pool.
Needless to say, those nice and geeky characters I enjoyed on screen have turned this gal, who always thought she’d marry Asian, into a gal who desires a tall, geeky, white man to replace the tall, burly Asian man of her daydreams. But it makes me wonder… does this make me a traitor?
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The boob tube is such a brainwashing machine!
Ah, the nerdy white guy fetish. I think it's sad actually, because mainstream culture is selling it's rejects to other cultures and expecting us to worship them. The nerdy white guy is just as bad as the fat white girl sold to Black men.
I'm Black female, most of my best friend in high school was Vietnamese, she couldn't stand to see this go on! I remember she was dating her boyfriend (also Vietnamese) and her grandmother would try and push her to date a White guy. She'd read her cards and tell her that she saw a White man in her future. My best friend would come to me with horror stories about dreams she had that her grandmothers predictions came true. She finally told her grandmother "Well, I might marry one but I won't like it!". She married her boyfriend though.
I don't mind interracial dating, but I have a major problem with race dating, meaning not dating due to genuine interest or love, but due to shallow stereotypes. In the Black community these days it's not just Black men who are doing this anymore, Black women are too. I fell victim to it. I didn't date a Black man until I reached my mid-20s and even then I was so full of negative stereotypes about my own race that I was always looking for the next best White man to come along. I finally realized that I was full of shit! Just because you date or marry White doesn't mean your life will turn out right. But these days will all the advertisement pumping up the interracial with movies like "Something New" and "Pacific Heights", etc., the belief among Black women is growing that White men are better.
Anyway, I could go on and on, but I really love your site. It's good to see people out there dedicated to respecting and loving their own identity and culture, which of course doesn't mean hating all others, but self-respect is just damn refreshing in theses days of loving and respecting anything but yourself.
@moye
Is Will the one you've decided make your husband?
Congrats!
Hey, did you know that Will is a 6 ft tall nerdy white guy??? -100 for bringing up the nerd level on this post.
(Sorry, Jee, but he's already taken.)
Will: That was the reason why I used the photo. (I put in the photo for Jee.) +10 for you for getting the tech reference. :) He's six feet tall, by the way, which is... uhm, taller than me.
1. Did you realize that Kevin Rose, the creator of Digg, is in the photo you posted?
2. Thank you for mentioning Ed from Ed. I thought I was the only one. I miss that show. DVD needs releasing!
I really liked this post. I have recently been reading a lot of Asian centered websites on the net and most of them bring up this point about white males/Asian female relationships. I am a black woman but most of my friends are Asian (partly because of my mandarin/Sichuan/Taiwanese abilities or at least working on them :> ) so I often get the opportunity to observe their interactions among themselves as well as others outside of the circle and ask questions. I find that the "white fetish" is basically a form of exoticism. OF COURSE you are attracted to someone who is different from your immediate circle. Perhaps Asian women are just looking for something different from what they have always known. That does not mean that Asian men should be immediately discounted because of it. I find all men attractive in some way but their ethnicity is an added bonus not the deal breaker. There should be something about you as a man that distinguishes you from the rest...perhaps that is where we need to start. Confidence is the key! For the record, I am a huge fan of Japanese/Korean/Taiwanese TV dramas and movies and there are PLENTY of very masculine and attractive men portrayed there.
PS: there is nothing wrong with being a nerd in any flavor!
@Bo
The comment you left further distances the men that feel the way they do about this situation. Those feelings are legitimate and have at least some basis.
There is of course truth on both sides of the matter but it's important to try and foster a situation where we can move towards understanding and being okay with each other no matter the personal outcome of each commentor.
In other words, diplomacy is important here if you want things to get better with this situation.
Jee, I don't think you needed to explain whether or not your post was in jest.
I think the comments revealed those individuals who are mysogynists and really have no capacity to respect women.
@ Jee
Next time can I ask you to state if an entry is in jest? I didn't feel it was completely obvious. Some of us are disenfranchised enough to take offense.
Just like how Christians being afraid of Chinese people on Christwire.com is a joke (look up "I am extremely afraid of chinese people" on google) it should really be clear that you're joking or you run the risk of alienating people.
I look forward to more entries where we can talk about these issues. Thanks again for posting.
Jeeeee -- Thank for clearing that up for us. I was wondering why you were being awkwardly facetious! Silly me, for a second there I was thinking, "Maybe she doesn't write as well as she speaks." I'm glad you came right over here and clarified all this ridiculousness we thought you were talking about.
"She enjoys all things food related, especially the eating part."
That was so ironic! Me too. I'm extremely glad to know there are other people out there that share many things in common with me. But really, I used to love Asian girls when I was a kid. But then all of a sudden, after watching all these reality shows (WOW!), I have a secret fetish for White girls with these humongous toes. Shhhh...Don't tell anyone. My girlfriend is Asian and White, but when we get intimate, I can't help thinking about those big juicy toes. *licks lips*
Thanks for sharing Jee. I'm glad to know we have soooo many things in common.
Hi! I'm going to try and clear up "tongue-in-cheek" or completely serious matter.
Apparently, I don't write as funny as I talk? :oP
Obviously I'm not completely serious about being into geeky white guys ONLY. I wouldn't limit myself like that. :oP AND I love Asian guys and find them just as attractive, if not more. And I think geeky Asian guys don't get enough positive exposure in media, since I personally know some hot but a bit geeky Asian guys.
I wanted to see what the readers thought about the rise of the geeky white guy in the media and how that affects us(Asians).
It was personalized because I found myself being somewhat affected by the portrayal in the media and took a step back to make sure that I wasn't allowing myself to be affected by media in an unhealthy manner.
I LOVED all of the comments, thoughts, and expressions. I have to admit the comments were way better than the blog post itself!
And rest easy, I don't watch any National Geographic and Wildlife channels. :o)
well it is possible Jee thought it was funny, but others just couldn't find the funny part.
Jee Jee Jee
i want to believe this entry is tongue in cheek too...
but usually, being 'tongue-in-cheek' means a presence of blunt ironic humor which results in an entry being somewhat funny... and its blatantly obvious this post doesn't have that...
but Confuse-Us' comment made me LOL, so I guess this post had its purpose...
The enemy is white but the enmity comes from within.
and yes, I agree with many of the comments here that Asian women are one of the biggest enforcers of stereotypes (both male and female). It's our responsibility as a group to raise ourselves up rather than bring each other down. Stop going around saying "Asian guys are unattractive/wifebeaters/geeky/old-fashioned." That's your brother, your cousin, your friends you're insulting.
Oh, and go watch some asian films/tv shows. there are plenty of hot men in them.
Hmm, this is funny. I was raised in Koreatown, Los angeles so I was basically surrounded by minorities. However, by the time I got into middle school I became obsessed with American pop culture and therefore started idealizing the white male (as they were the only ones worth idealizing as portrayed by the media). The white guys I met seemed so nice and "interesting" compared to the Asian guys I hung out with. They were politically aware, had quirky humor, and liked indie music/film (Hahahaa). But then I realized how different the dynamics were. In reality, I could never open myself up to them the way I could to Asian guys, because honestly, I didn't understand their intentions and desires. Now, I can't imagine ending up with a white guy, and I feel guilty for having fetishized them the same way they did with me. Maybe it's because I go to college with a bunch of those nerdy cute white guys, but yeah, I'm a bit sick of them. They no longer hold that "exotic" interest (LOL) they once did when I was younger. Also, most of them are secretly arrogant dickheads.
What makes one believe that this was meant to be tongue in cheek? Let me be the first to say that this scenario seems pretty plausible and these types of Asian women are rife. Unless the owners of the blog come outright and say it, it's pretty much a normal story.
I think that since it didn't generate the type of responses you wanted in order to discredit detractors, you spun it off as a fictional story. Instead, you have some rational discourse coupled with an interesting thesis. The ultra-liberal, high brow, high horse attitude which is so virulent in Asian America today is pretty annoying and has yet to provide any type of realistic solution to problems. That's even if Asian Americans admit that there is a problem to begin with. A big problem is that Asian women have even fathomed the idea of their being something off about the numbers of Asian women with white men. All they end up doing on a consistent basis is get defensive. It's impossible to have rational discourse with you unless you hear good news.
Efren, you're talking about oranges and bowling balls.
We're talking about the huge media influence on Asian American attitudes. You're talking about how we should create our own media. If you want to encourage others to do that, I'd go with encouragement, not the FOXNews "pull yourselves up by your bootstraps" argument.
BTW: Did anyone even bother to read the research thesis? Or was it thrown in the trash because it proves that Asian women are some of the biggest enforcers of racist stereotypes against Asian men?
Aside from the serious aspects, I actually find this to be a little bit humorous, pardon my words.
Regarding those dreams and thoughts for the ideal mate, leave the option open if you are still single. I've met far too many couples who stayed strong together and they've often been quite opposite to what their idealistic dreams were...dreams when they were young and old.
Bluntly speaking, if someone is still very influenced by TV or mass media in general, then he or she isn't really him/herself. It's ok, it happens to people of every background and age. However, they are just fantasies. There's no special magic that will last far enough to suspend reality in the long run.
*Frankly speaking, if people interacted enough with Tall Geeky White men or Tall Burly Asian men, or whatever your desires, those people wouldn't feel or find anything too special about them in general, maybe indivudally.*
Aside from the serious aspects, I actually find this to be a little bit humorous, pardon my words.
Regarding those dreams and thoughts for the ideal mate, leave the option open if you are still single. I've met far too many couples who stayed strong together and they've often been quite opposite to what their idealistic dreams were...dreams when they were young and old.
Bluntly speaking, if someone is still very influenced by TV or mass media in general, then he or she isn't really him/herself. It's ok, it happens to people of every background and age. However, they are just fantasies. There's no special magic that will last far enough to suspend reality in the long run.
*Frankly speaking, if people interacted enough with Tall Geeky White men or Tall Burly Asian men, or whatever your desires, those people wouldn't feel or find anything too special about them in general, maybe indivudally.*
You guys had me going for a while. I had steam coming out of my ass and both of my ears. Thanks to Akrypti for knocking some sense into me. Not falling for this one, 8Asians! =)
We live in superficial 'gendered racist' society but now with a geeky stereotype twist? haha you know geeky asian guys has the opposite effect.
These trends and influences are evidently visible in modern society due to the influences of past colonialism, cultural imperialism, patriarchy, classism etc are still showing it's nasty side effects in the racist social constructs of modern society.
As we know the results speak for itself when all the inequalities will pave the way for caucasian men to get the ethnic woman of choice using skin color and they still take advantage of it because mainstream society seems to accept this inequality and some will happily abide by it.
Although it gets hard to identify this type of thing because the prejudices don't fit the older definitions and seems to be covered pretty well.
For some there's not not much of a choice, negative influences can get the better of our tastes and views on life, sadly it's all systematic without sufficient consciousness.
When I read the article in Google Reader, I thought it was truncated because I expected the article to go further into feelings of not belonging or alienation. That was rather abrupt.
It makes sense that TV and media shape some ideal, but really it's just portraying a (somewhat) racist stereotype about white males that is analogous to media portrayals of nerdy Asian males. It's not betrayal; it's just generalizing and (somewhat) racist to buy into some vision of the "Geeky White Male" rather than actually finding out about the individual.
Speaking from experience, many of those "geeky males" with skinny jeans and horn-rimmed glasses are just poseurs anyway.
When I read the article in Google Reader, I thought it was truncated because I expected the article to go further into feelings of not belonging or alienation. That was rather abrupt.
It makes sense that TV and media shape some ideal, but really it's just portraying a (somewhat) racist stereotype about white males that is analogous to media portrayals of nerdy Asian males. It's not betrayal; it's just generalizing and (somewhat) racist to buy into some vision of the "Geeky White Male" rather than actually finding out about the individual.
Speaking from experience, many of those "geeky males" with skinny jeans and horn-rimmed glasses are just poseurs anyway.
Television is so very white, it's annoying. You could also replace "tall geeky white guy" with "short fat white guy" or "sweaty pigfaced white guy" or "evil sexy white guy." It's all white guys out there. Except on CSI.
I'm in agreement with Akrypti. If, however, the opening poster is genuine then I would have to suggest that she avoid the National Geographic and Wildlife channels just in case she finds herself romatnically intrigued by the graceful elegance of the fauna that roams the African savanagh.
I am going to assume this entry was tongue-in-cheek irony. And posted for the sole purpose of generating a ton of militant-Asian responses.
Well if what you see on tv and in the movies is what you like...then I guess that's you. Could be just a phase, you could end up marrying someone like that. Who knows.
Whether it's the Hip Hop Celebrities, Sports Celebrities, Actors, Geeky/Nerdy Guys...the mainstream is built to entice the audience.
Maybe today it's the geeky/nerdy guy, the next is the lovable dreamy Korean mixed Actor known as Dennis Oh or some other bi-racial actor, then it's back to the full-blooded Korean actor, then maybe it's back to the White Guy because the Asians that you meet aren't the dream guys you were hoping for.
but a traitor? Seems more like a girl who is easily influenced by the media, happens to everyone.
I can't remember ever seeing a geeky, burly black or Latino adult (kid, maybe the drama kid in Ugly Betty), much less Asian. Maybe the closest is Grant Imahara from Mythbusters.
I think we do people a grave disservice by saying that they're so deluded into believing solely into mainstream white American media that they're unable to think for themselves. What I find disturbing is that the Asian men who make these claims about Asian women and white men completely deny the fact that Asian women have agency to choose who they want to be with romantically or sexually, and that all it takes is an Asian man to show them "the error of their ways."
If people are that invested in having Asian men in American media--make your own goddamn media. Waiting for the mainstream to do it and railing against it--while doing absolutely nothing to encourage Asian men to enter this field--is hypocritical and pointless.
Seems funny that one mentions J. Chan. He was one of my thesis advisors for my MA thesis in sociology at UCSB. Too bad he left American academia though--he was one of the people who encouraged me to look at Asian American masculinity.
Sounds like a healthy situation, as long as TV stations in the U.S. have also got you interested in tall, geeky black or Latino men too.
But if this isn't the case, then readers on this site ought to get TV stations to show lots of tall, geeky blacks and Latinos as the main characters on their shows as well. uRB4N does everyone a great service by providing a link to UC Riverside sociologist Karen Pyke's paper, which seems to me to be spot on about this topic.
I don't like the implications of this entry. What I can conclude is that the bias of media has made quite an impression on Jee. I'm not sure if asking herself if she is a traitor is the right question but rather are Asian men represented fairly in her mind.
Media has often portrayed Asian men as geeky but sexless. White men are often cast into roles where they are portrayed as heroes with sexuality to match. There seems to always be a love interest for the White men cast as heroes. Asian heroes seem to have a mission and then complete it without any sexual incident. Only in the last year or so can I say that an Asian hero popular with mainstream America (Hiro Nakamura) was allowed to exude any sexuality by forming a relationship with a white waitress, and stealing the heart of Japanese princess. He's still geeky but at least he gets the girl by himself, through his own brand of masculinity. But it's still not enough and it's a small start hopefully leading to a speedy break through.
I'm guilty of being influenced by the media as well. I've also only known Long Duk Dong and Computer Nerd and not tall, geeky guy. For believing that to be my inheritance/destiny in American culture was my mistake. For allowing others to perpetuate these perceptions as well as the legacy left by Chinese Exclusion and Charlie Chan is a social crime. But I've been doing my best to break myself of it and define my Asian masculinity for myself rather than having it dictated to me.
The next step is to broadcast it and break those stereotypes so that the unbalanced perceptions of Asian men can be undone
So perhaps for Jee it really isn't a question of "Am I a traitor?". If preferring tall geeky white guys really bothers her, perhaps it begs the question "Am I giving fair consideration based in reality rather than perceptions from mainstream American fiction?".
At this point I'll credit Jachinson Chan for educating me in this area. He has written a book that directly addresses Chinese American Masculinities in America. I strongly recommend it despite its hefty price tag. Thank you, Jachinson.
Is there a shortage of tall geeky Asian guys?
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