Excited
There seems to be a lot of discussion within the Asian American community about acts of racism against Asians, but very little about Asians acting racist themselves. It occurs frequently and seems to me to be a real problem. For example: the other day I was at a dinner party with a group of Asians, most of whom were in their 40s and 50s. At some point my friend’s parents began discussing her boyfriend with me (who wasn’t present). They weren’t enamored with him, and began listing out the reasons why. When they were done, one of the other guests asked, “So what is worse in your eyes? If your daughter continues dating her current boyfriend, or if she begins dating a black man?” They then had a long, serious conversation about this, and while not reaching a firm conclusion, also made it clear that the black man wasn’t winning any brownie points in their book.
The next day I was getting coffee with a friend of mine from Taiwan, and I mentioned this story to her. Her response: “Yeah! My parents do the same thing!” I got the same response from the next four Asian people I mentioned this to, so I don’t think this is uncommon. Also, all the people who were discussing this at the dinner party were intelligent, caring people, yet none of them seemed to think that there was anything wrong or even strange about disliking someone on the basis of race.
So, what’s the extent to which these problems exist? I’m reasonably convinced that amongst first generation Asian immigrants, racial stereotypes abound (especially against other non-Asian, non-white minorities), in large part because the homogeneity of most Asian countries doesn’t really prepare immigrants for the racial and cultural diversity that is America. Also, based on everything I’ve ever heard, non Asian non-white races are treated in Asian countries with at best, amused curiosity and at worst, outright disdain (as hard as it is for a Chinese person to deal with racial issues in America, imagine how much harder it is for a black man to deal with racial issues in China). But I’m curious what happens to immigrant children, people of my generation. Do they tend to adopt the attitudes of the society they grew up in, or does racism pass on through the family?
And what’s the impact of this to the Asian community? The most immediate impact is that it makes the Asian community a bit hypocritical – the same dinner guests who didn’t want their daughter dating a black man also complained about racial glass ceilings in the workplace, and while that point might still be valid, it’s harder to make persuasively when you are essentially guilty of the same behavior. It also has the effect of isolating the Asian American community. I don’t think my parents have any non Asian non white friends, and I don’t think any of their Asian friends do either. When others complain about Asians being insular, this strikes me as being one of the root causes.
What are your thoughts?
(Flickr photo: jeremybarwick)
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xaynie
I will be quick and answer your question: My family and I are first generation Vietnamese immigrants. I cam here when I was 5 years old so you can count me as the "1.5 generation." I grew up seeing my grandmother almost disown my mom because she wanted to date a black man. My aunt had to hide her relationship with a Mexican man from my grandmother as well. Even though both my mom and aunt are mixed White & Vietnamese (yes, my grandmother was racist only against other minorities).
It caused a lot of problems for me while growing up because most of my friends were Asian or Latino / Mexican. I couldn't even bring them home to do homework together because my grandmother was so afraid they would "rob her and tie her up" or that they would "steal stuff from the house." I had many arguments with her yelling through tears "They aren't just MEXICAN, they're MY FRIENDS! There's nothing wrong with them! They won't steal stuff"
So yeah...growing up was not fun for me, in a world where you're constantly wrestling to the American culture and traditional Vietnamese values.
World Harmony
its not a racist issue, its a lifestyle issue. it is asian culture to be in balance with the earth and nature, but at the rate the asian culture reproduces , this is not feasible. does anyone know why they like to have so many kids?
insomnia
There may be some Asians that lack understanding of other Asians,
but that is in isolated event. Asians interacting and understanding with
other Asians groups dynamic seem to evolved. People can plant doubts
and tries to get Asian to mistrusts each other but in the end its a waste
of effort. Based on the article portrayal of the adults characters as
racists lack a certain empathy for the adults. How do you know they or
someone know were not a victim of a crime. They may have legitimate
reason for their outlook. Peace out brothers and sisters.
What about Asians being racist against other Asians? What about Korean VS Japanese, Chinese VS Japanese or etc? If you look at figure skating... for example on figure skaters Mao Asada and Yu Na Kim's forum, you can see a lot of racial overtones, jealousy and hatred against each other that is so surreal and disgusting. Might I suggest you take a look at youtube and visit both Mao Asada and Yu Na Kim's forum and you can see this phenomenon taking place. The racism card doesn't only apply with Asian being biased against Africans or African-Americans.
Prejudices of the human mind are the result of inadequate knowledge. When one gains greater awareness of the world through knowledge, one gains an understanding of the ways of the world and one can then begin to properly reason the truth of one's beliefs. Racism is one such prejudice.
Shocked the hell out of me as a new AP, to bring home my Chinese daughter and have Chinese friends say, " Well now, she's not TOO dark" as though it were a compliment. ?????? Frustrating.
GROUPS will always be GROUPIST.
Every group is the BEST group. Relatively speaking.
The answer. Keep each group confined to themselves. Oh wait, that's segregation.
Ok, keep each group confined to themselves. Those who want diversity can opt out. Simple.
HUMANS can be just as racist too...
Rob wrote
"The most immediate impact is that it makes the Asian community a bit hypocritical - the same dinner guests who didnu00e2u0080u0099t want their daughter dating a black man also complained about racial glass ceilings in the workplace, and while that point might still be valid, itu00e2u0080u0099s harder to make persuasively when you are essentially guilty of the same behavior."
Whilst I agree 100% that some Asians can be just as racist as any other group I absolutely do not agree that the presence of racist attitudes amongst Asians should somehow affect their access liberty and equality. That's complete nonsense.
As U.S citizens, Asian-Americans have the right to equal opportunities and equal access to resources as any other group, regardless of their political or social attitides, as long as those attitudes do not diminish the rights and liberties of others in society. I don't believe that the U.S constitution puts these kinds of conditions on the rights of it's citizens and I've never heard anyone suggest that white or black people should have their demands for rights be taken less seriously because of racist attitudes in their communities. Why should it be different for Asians?
Secondly, is it reasonable to equate parental dating preferences for their kids to workplace discrimination? It seems ridiculous to me.
I think a lot of people choose to interact with others that they may share things in common with, and a lot of times it could be because of race and culture. Even though we might discuss thing as a Asian-American perspective, I still think many Asian themselves identify with their own ethnicity/culture. It's not uncommon to meet certain groups such as Chinese or Koreans who would rather date someone of the same background. In fact, I know people who not only marry based on the same cultural background but also the same religion as well. For example, my father had to convert to Catholicism otherwise he wouldn't have been allowed to marry my mother. My aunt as well, her husband told me that his mother was very strict on him choosing a wife of the same cultural background and the same religious background...anything else was not acceptable.
Work might be a little different just because of the whole "Equal Employment Opportunities" talk, but of course that also has it's own complications. But I've heard and encountered my own fair share of discrimination, whether it was about Asians or between Asians. I had a Cuban co-worker who said that her mom would accept that she dated anyone besides a Black Man. Then I would ask her, "did something happen to her to make her to feel that way?" Her response was basically,"I swear my mom isn't a racist at all, but I guess that's just the way she thinks". My co-worker told me (when she was in her rebellious phase) started dating a Black male to piss off her mom on purpose.
As Asian-Americans, I don't think it be surprising for us to hear that people in our family from certain Asian countries think this way especially because it may be a part of the cultures. Just the same way, if we started telling people that our family didn't approve of us not having careers in Engineering or the Medical Field...because their parents came here for their children to have a better life, thus also ensuring a better life for their family as well.
There's not only the divide between Asian groups with non-Asians, or Asians amongst different Asian groups...there's also the topic of Asian born vs Non-Asian born. That's a lot of Asians.
This is the order of preference that heard when growing up.
-Lighter ethnic Chinese
-Medium ethnic Chinese
-Darker ethnic Chinese
-Korean
-Vietnamese
-other southeast asians
-White
-Japanese
-Indian
-Mexican
-Black
This piece posted is more complicated that it sounds. When it comes to race we all can learn from each other but when one dismisses another group based on the color of their skin, that is when the complications begin.
As someone who considers himself to be very open to different cultures, there are certain issues that I am closed about. I would not want to daughters getting married to men that that are different from me. An Asian male. I would love for my daughters to marry anyone that is Korean, Chinese, Japanese or anyone that resembles me.
The complications that comes with interracial marriage/ relationships is something I would not want my daughters to go through. If one of my daugther marries a Black man she will have to deal with the negative looks given to her by Asian men along with the looks that comes with White men.
That being said. If she comes to me with someone who she has been dating for years and years that happens to be Latino, Black or White. There must be alot of convincing on their part that this is what they really want. And my preferences can be put aside when that time comes when my daughters get married. I say this now but when the time comes I might have a different opinion.
All I want is for my daughters to be happy with what they have. And as a father who cares for his daughters deeply I want what is best for them. A society that embraces their love of each other which gives them comfort and solace without negative judgements that complicates their enjoyment for life.
My parents will definitely talk about Blacks and Hispanics in a racist manner-- as well as other Asian groups. I have to say that it was a negative example for me growing up, and I learned very quickly to be more sensitive to racial issues.
In some cases, a colonial mentality has lead to Asians ranking people based on color. It's really sad when Asians not only discriminate against darker-skinned ethnicities but discriminate against darker skinned people of their own group. I have talked about colorism in this post:
http://www.8asians.com/2008/08/29/i-want-to-be-was...
A colonial history doesn't excuse such behavior, but does explain where some of it comes from.
Different Asian groups are often pretty harsh to each other, too.
I thought this was a great post and agree with your observations, since they coincide with some of my own observations, specifically with the Taiwanese immigrant population. But I'd have to say that amongst 1st generation Taiwanese Americans, a lot of their racial stereotypes have been formed and reinforced based on stereotypes perpetuated by the media (TV, film) when they lived in Taiwan, and the news when they live in the United States, rather than any direct contact or relations with other minorities in the U.S.
My mom has been perpetually asking me when I am going to get married. So I asked once hypothetically if it was okay if I got married to a black woman. She said yes. A few days later, she reconsidered and said no....
This is quite a bit topic to discuss about. Most people are quite aware that prejudices exist in every group and particular offenses do not reflect nor represent an entire people. So, once we get past that romantic idea of a "model minority or perfect group of people" it might be a bit better to to actually talk freely about important issues.
I can't say much for those non-East Asian people living in Asia, because there really is a lot of information out there regarding their experiences. A lot of it range from many different viewpoints, depending a whole lot on what you do over there, like occupation wise, as well as location, group of people you interact with...some negative, some relatively positive, some pragmatic, etc. Depends who you talk to, and what they talk about because I myself get a lot of different perspectives from the non-East Asian (non-white too) minorities over there.
Anyone can read up about Hines Ward and his story/actions for minorities in Korea. There's also this link (don't take it too serious, more as a stepping stone, general reference point) for the situation in China...
http://blog.foolsmountain.com/2008/10/14/are-chine...
The people in Asia itself has quite a lot of ugly/conflicting attitudes among each other, but that's sort of a different catergory on its own.
Regarding Asian Americans and attitudes about race, to be blunt, it is quite hypocritical for some to complain yet at the same time speak or take actions that downgrade another group of people. Which is one of the reasons what turn me off from taking part in the "AzN pRyDe" bandwagon. Although there's nothing wrong with being proud of yourself, sometimes people get carry away and blur the differences between what is real pride; whether it's really maintaining your DIGNITY, bringing HONOR, or feeding your EGO.
Again to be blunt, there are some attitudes regarding race they really was adopted/influenced from members of the local environment. I'm pretty sure nearly every concerned reader knows of someone with this condition. In that case, it's not quite an Asian American issue, but a much wider issue, since it's going to take the entire community as whole to work together.
Sorry for typing too much, but there's another thing which is a bit humorous yet somewhat serious. Some people dislike a particular traits or characters and often express racist terms to them however they are not that way to the entire group. For example, a lot of non-black people will express quite openly very demeaning, racist terms towards any black individual that visibly represents "urban/hip hop culture" or take actions affiliated with gangs and crime. However, they are very accepting or tolerant of other black individuals who don't have anything to do with those conditions. Same thing with other racial/ethnic/cultural-religious groups. I personally know people who are like that, and in my eyes, they really aren't racist. However, there are some who are, those exceptions aren't always absolute.
Maybe it's terminology or mainstream ideas...I'm really not sure.
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