8 Asians

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• Ruby
  "As a student interested in the progression of the Asian American Identity, I find myself in a small minority of students that seem to actually care and it only forces me to wonder why."
  
  As a Chinese-American residing in Texas, I can wholeheartedly agree with you. The relatively small amount of Asians that do attend my (mostly white) high school care very little about Asian American issues. Even the Asians that are an active part of our school's Asian culture club are fairly ignorant and honestly are more concerned about AP/SAT testing.
  
  I always wondered if the situation with Asian Americans would change if I attended college on either coast....
• Kevin
  Ruby -
  
  I actually thought/think that if you lived in a community where you were an overwhelming minority, it might be a greater incentive to be more involved. The academic point is important; there was a recent study conducted that claimed diversity groups had a potential correlation with poor(er) grades (I think its ludicrous, which is why I use the words potential and correlation). Read about it here
  
  http://www.claremontindependent.com/home/index....
  
  Still , I think that wherever you attend college, that it is important to remain vocal about such issues to a) prevent such incidents like this from happening in the future and b) be a leader to increase awareness within the Asian American community. All universities need that sort of leadership and voice.
• Gaga
  "I guess Asia America has become more comfortable with its role in society, but if these incidents have shown us anything, that comfort is nothing but a facade."
  
  Kevin, you are always going to find oddballs in this country. There are still people advocating for arranged marriages. I think the very fact that these incidents come to light speak of their sporadic nature. Asian Americans have mingled into the community and are living at peace. It is time we accepted that as a fact of life and moved on.
  
  I am an Asian American on your college campus and I feel no need to have a separate Asian group to mentor me. In fact, if anything, I'd say that groups like these hinder, not help the process of mingling with the community as a whole.
• Kevin
  Gaga -
  
  A couple things,
  
  One, I think recent evidence has proven a contrary point, it will serve more than a coincidence when we see the backlash against most of the violent acts committed by Asian American men in the last couple of weeks (there are already allegations of police brutality against an Asian American in NY... http://www.angryasianman.com/2009/04/possible-p...) or that there are so many acts of bias happening in quick succession against Asia America. At that point, it doesn't become an oddball or anomaly.
  
  Two, addressing our college campus; I recently wrote that APAM is seemingly inadequate to address such issues and that the opinions and views on APAM are ridiculously flawed. Read about it in my own blog.
  
  http://mommatoldme.wordpress.com/2009/03/20/to-...
  
  The argument that APAM (the mentor group GAGA hints to) hinders the progress of mingling with the community is ridiculous. It serves as a means for those who do have trouble mingling, whether or not it be because of the color of their skin, to find a place of comfort. I went to a private boarding school in Massachusetts, and the diversity program developed there is constantly attacked with the same reasoning. Results before and after the studies showed that the grades, retention rate, and overall success of minority students rose drastically after the program was instituted. To say that I only have Asian friends is ludicrous , and to say that APAM forces a student to only have Asian friends is even more ludicrous.
  
  Still, I would like to hear more about your reasoning and arguments, and understand your motivations for anonymity. If you feel comfortable, please e-mail me or send me a message on Facebook.
• Dan
  This reminds me of this one old comedy video from a UCSD group about the whole IR dating situation that I feel represents the attitude most college age Asian Americans have, at UCSD at least, concerning general AA issues.
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_edce8uccAc
  
  Softball explanations and solutions that feel like a cop-out.
• Daniel W.
  It may differ from other people's perceptions but from my own college experiences and observations, and interacting other college students, past and current, I get the impression that a lot of these Asian-American groups are really just another reason(excuse) to socialize and have fun. Nothing wrong with that and there are individuals out there who pursue social causes. However, it's not like the groups or organization's goals are revolve around these issues. This opinion of mine also applies to most college organizations, whether it's Asian-centric or not.
  
  It's just, IMO, there's more to life than just fun but knowing college students, unless it's related to your career goals or something very personal, most of the time these experiences/activities will be treated as just extracurricular activities.
  
  If you all think hard enough about it, Asian-American issues are quite complex and diverse. There are many topics where it can not be taken as a collective whole. Many struggles and conditions are different. Sometimes, what is taken seriously by some people is taken very lightly by others, and all have valid reasons why. IMO, I think one of the overlooked significant reasons why many AA's (both 1st generation/immigrated and later) have a hard time here is that the Diaspora (minority)mentality is still very new to them, and in a sense, the experiences have been more fluid to them than other groups, relatively speaking. I could go on explaining my hypothesis but I think most of the readers will understand. I know this doesn't applied to everyone and I could be dead wrong, but it's just one opinion.
• p33mp
  y didn't the KSA members beat the white dood's ass?
  
  they had him way out numbered? it should have been a good lesson to teach the guy..
  
  actions speak louder than words
• Gaga
  Kevin
  
  The 1st link you provided directs to a blog - that in itself makes it lose a huge chunk of credibility. That is followed up by an excerpt of an eye-witness account. No legitimacy whatsoever. Even so, if we were to accept it as fact, I dont think the situation would have been any different had a Caucasian or African American had been driving. I'm pretty sure that if a white kid bullied another white kid, it would just another case of middle school drama. But if the victim was of a different race (especially that of a minority), suddenly people magnify the issue, add a racial edge to it and spread the story. At the end of the day though, the bully only wanted lunch money. I realize that this is a trivial example, but I hope you see the point I'm trying to drive home.
  
  The second link you provided talks briefly of APAM and even more briefly about its competency (or lack of it). I appreciate the initiative you are taking and I hope you will take APAM to a better place.
  
  Lastly, I only said that in certain cases, these groups 'may' hinder growth. There is evidence both for and against this statement and we are both aware of it (claremont conservative). However, the entire argument you followed it up with is baseless. I never said that APAM forces you to have only Asian friends. I never said that you have only Asian friends. And yet you took offense to what was unsaid and called it 'ludicrous'. I can only suspect that this rather defensive stance emits from an insecurity you dont want to voice, or is the cause of repeated accusations of the same nature that you have had to confront earlier. I hope (and knowing you, I'm pretty sure) it's not the former. As for the latter, if a lot of people feel that these groups tend to promote race based cliques, they are probably saying it out of experience (or blatantly lying - to what end, I know not), and maybe their experiences have shown them that there is some truth to what they are saying.
  
  We however, digress from the primary issue of Asian Americans being victimized. Coming back to it, I'd like to remind you of an argument I brought up earlier in this post - that of overplaying the ordinary. I do not have the statistics, nor do I have to time to collect them, but I can say, with intuition and a keen eye that the crimes against Asians you speak of are either of extraordinary nature or are normal events being played up. Either way, they in no way mirror the larger picture and are statistical noise - insignificant and irrelevant if you're trying to judge an entire nation based on them. I could of course be wrong, I could of course be living in a constant state of denial to curb my inner insecurities from erupting to the surface - in which case I need to bring myself to reality and ground zero. However, I highly doubt I am living in a parallel universe.
  
  Much Love
  Gaga
  
  
  Daniel
  
  I tend to agree with a lot of things you have said. Now if you could expand on the last bit of your post, I'd be really interested... I find the view rather fascinating...
• Confuse_Us
  Gaga said..
  "Even so, if we were to accept it as fact, I dont think the situation would have been any different had a Caucasian or African American had been driving."
  
  That's actually quite an assertion to make. I've never heard anybody claim that Caucasians are as likely to be stopped, harrassed or brutalized by the police as are African-Americans or Hispanics. Most reports that I've read suggest the exact opposite.
  
  As for school bullying, I think that there are a few reports that would suggest that Asian-Americans are more likely to be bullied or harrassed in the school environment than non-Asians......
  http://www.asianweek.com/2008/05/29/addressing-...
  
  I think that the national average for school bullying runs at around 11%, for the Asians in the above report it's 3 times that. The following report suggests that racially based harrassment of Asian kids is a problem in multiple locations and is not limited to areas where there are small communities of Asians......
  
  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/ar...
  
  One of the problems with trying to discuss these types of issues is the dearth of actual statistics concerning the experiences of Asian kids in America's schools. I think that racially biased harrassment of Asian-American schoolkids is a reality that even the Asian-American community seems almost unwilling to address, preferring instead to focus on inter-racial dating "issues" and reacting to media slights.
• Kevin
  Dan -
  
  To be fair, WongFu has seriously stepped up its game in promoting Asian Americans in the media, but that is a biased opinion. Plus, they came out and said that Yellow Fever was not a criticism of AF/WM relationships but a parody of an overgeneralized stereotype.
  
  Daniel -
  
  "I think one of the overlooked significant reasons why many AA’s (both 1st generation/immigrated and later) have a hard time here is that the Diaspora (minority)mentality is still very new to them, and in a sense, the experiences have been more fluid to them than other groups, relatively speaking."
  
  Your argument reaffirms the need for greater awareness of the Asian American Identity. Look, I understand people who find it to be useless etc. etc. and that's fine. But my inspirations for being such an active member in the API community is for a couple reasons 1) because the majority, whether it be on race, sexual orientation, or gender, does get a precedence/preference whether we like it or not. I mean there's a reason why we have the connotations we have for WASPs, and in many cases they are unfairly negative, but that's the world we live in. 2) to many people identity reaffirmation is important to the overall success and mindset of said individuals. It is easier to have a role model that looks like you, than it does to have one that doesn't... Frank Wu's Yellow touches on this point really well in its opening chapter . He addresses growing up in America where he was an obvious minority and the only idol he could look up to was, Johnny Sokko because it was the only figure that "looked" like him and I recommend you read it.. Google has it here.
  
  http://books.google.com/books?id=JkPvf5Cs-DgC&d...
  
  However, the views of GAGA do reflect the majority view of the Asian American student body at my school; and that, quite frankly, is a huge turn off. It really makes me want to focus my time and energy on such issues elsewhere. (say...an Asian American community blog like 8asians. HEYYY!!)
  
  Gaga -
  
  I'd like to start by saying that while I appreciate your comments and understand your apparent need anonymity, it would be a lot easier to respond and discuss such an issue if we were to talk face to face, considering that you've already established that you attend the same institution I do, and apparently know me well enough to see through my thought process, I don't think that should be a big problem. A problem for me is that I honestly don't know who you are and it's sort of creepy. I don't bite, but I do hate typing responses because they take FOREVER.
  
  But a couple concessions - I know the first link is unsubstantiated, but not because it is a blog; AngryAsianMan is like the Asian version of the Huffington Post, and the I respect the hell out of the Huffington Post (and you damn well should too). But yes, it is unsubstantiated (and AngryAsianMan hints to this through his own rhetoric in the post), which is why I stick the word "allegation" (nitpicky, I know, but that's how I do things). But comparing potential police brutality and bullying isn't really an adequate comparison... I'm pretty sure if "bullying" were to happen in place of the Rodney King case, that there would not be the same response (and yes, that's an overextended comparison). If you do want another case, I'd love to share similar cases with similar racial motivations and similar decisions in the course of law. Obviously the most famous one is Vincent Chin (which is also a bit extreme) but also the case of Karen Chen and her peers in Quincy, MA (a case I followed through high school). You make the claim that they are just "of extraordinary nature or are normal events being played up" but I see it as so much more in that it has become a common issue that is neither played up nor extraordinary, but still nonetheless wrong and very much racially motivated (you'll see why in a bit).
  
  But what you touch on, how race amplifies the case, is exactly why addressing Asian American Issues is so important. It touches on a specific issue; why is race important? Because it is inherently the first thing we see and the first we thing we use to categorize ourselves. Take Freakanomics, where it was proven that the "type" of name you have on your resume (based of race) changes the rate of acceptance (and this is based of resumes that have the same qualifications) or take Kal Penn's example, who's real name is Kalpen Suresh Modi but realized that by changing his name to a more romanized Kal Penn got him more callbacks and auditions. We notice that UC's accept fewer API students, not fewer students living in a certain area etc. It is the first thing that the average person sees (save maybe gender) and it is most likely how you describe your self. Race is important because we are stuck with it, and it amplifies both our successes and flaws. Why else do you think the "Model Minority" myth exists? Why else did our institution reject a proposal for an Asian American Student Center about three years ago? (the actual reasoning, and this comes from a respected faculty member is because Asian American students APPARENTLY exceed the academic standards set by CMC, but Latino and African American students did not.) Tell me that is not race orientated, and tell me you don't think that is legitimate reason, because it's not. Again, I would suggest you read pages 18 to 32 of Frank Wu's book. Page 31 shows the "larger picture" you ask for; the issues isn't specific to a couple of incidents, you only see these because I'm pointing them out. I just don't have time to point out ALL of them.
  
  And yes, you're right, I have had this discussion a lot, and yes, the most common argument is "YOU GUYS ONLY HANG OUT WITH OTHER ASIANS" which is RIDICULOUS. Most of these accusations are from people OUTSIDE the organization "looking" in. Anyone who is part of the organization knows better. To be fair, it is easier for people of color to be friends with the people of the same color; its a simple and easy to reach commonality (I don't have to have a conversation with you to realize that you are Asian, but I do need to have one with you to realize that you like the same music I do). That's just how mankind is. But you can understand why I run on some autopilot responses.
  
  APAM, under its current framework, isn't the greatest.... and to change it would piss off too many people so I'm stuck. I wouldn't expect too much to be different next year but I intend to make it a better and more open program for not only Asian American students but all students who are interested in having these discussions but also be more involved socially; if that makes sense. Obviously the focus is on Asian America and some events will have to be API only (for reasons stated in my response to Daniel), but I am adamant in my belief that there has to be greater awareness and cooperation throughout the entire community.
  
  Again, I would love to talk to you in person over a meal and both share why I believe this is important and listen to what you have to say in more depth. Don't get so caught up in this particular issue, because it represents a small fragment of a greater issue involving individual identity. But I extend this to anyone who lives.. I guess in the LA area; time permitting.
  
  PS> apologies for any grammar mistakes, I'm OCD about that stuff but it's 2 in the morning.
• Confuse_Us
  Thanks to whomever fixed my linkage dumbassery!!!
• Daniel W.
  Hello
  
  Regarding the last statement of how our diaspora(minority) experiences are fairly new to Asian-Americans, it might be questionable but I'm going to have to generalize quite a lot to explain my opinion. Otherwise, it will turn into an essay. Sort of how Noam Chomsky takes a whole hour to answer two questions type of deal. A lot of details are left out if we simplify it too much.
  
  First, it really depends on which cultural heritage one comes from, because Asia is very big and diverse. I can only speak from mine, Chinese-Vietnamese, and even then I can only speak from how was raise, my enviromental influences, etc. I mean, unless you all have been here for quite a few generations or live in one of the Asian-dominated societies in the US, I think most of us belong to the catergory of having some close connection with immigrants and people from the Asian continent. People come here for different reasons from different background. I know that Asian in the US often means East/South-East Asian/Pacific Islanders but even in those places, it's still very diverse, big and dynamic (always changing).
  
  With all that being said, generally speaking, a lot of stereotypes are very silly, pure non-sense. I didn't know most of them, despite being born and raise in a predominantly-dominated Caucasian small Midwestern city. A lot of these things I've heard only by the "media" and briefly by other AA's who traveled a lot. Ah, it's very hard to make my explainations so concised...
  
  Ok, generally speaking, you all know how a lot of the other minority groups in the US (or in Western Civlization, if you all want to go that far) often have to deal with the horrible sentiments, expressed in actions, that they're less than human? Those type of sentiments have gone around for generations, even after offenses were past, the pain is still carried on. I know I'm generalizing quite a lot, but many AA's didn't have to deal with that. A lot of them came here for a variety of reasons, but on the whole, the attitude that they're less civilized, etc. isn't as strong as other groups have felt. Actually, at times it's been the opposite where many Asian individuals felt superior to others, in some cases even look down on caucasians.
  
  Actually, any history buff that is familiar with both Asian culture(s)/history and Western culture(s)/history (or world history in general)can sort of guess why such attitudes exist. If you all think hard enough, other than physical features and politics, there is very little the very "race-conscience" people in the States can use to mentally hurt Asians. I mentioned all that, because those type of attitudes have some effect on AA's. In a strange sense, the "model minority" myth is often kept alive by such attitudes. IMHO, it is a wrong attitude, but the point I want to make that there is very little for Asians to feel inferior or too superior to other people.
  
  I think one reason out of many why many AA's appear to be quite apathetic, is because of such attitudes and experiences. It's not like Asians haven't faced discrimination for whatever reason, but it's a bit different for each society. Study other minority groups that had to deal with bigotry and violence for generations, and you all can sort of see why they appear to care more (unite) and in some cases, can be quite militant.
  
  I apologize if that crude explaination of mine offended people (and my frammar mistakes), and it was very generalized but there are some valid points. Also, I've heard other people who mentioned opinions similiar to mine...people much older or have been in the States for decades. Again, it doesn't applied to everyone and really depends on individuals/families and specific cultural heritage. I also live around LA and noticed some differences between the ethnic-enclaves and places that don't have them.
• Daniel W.
  I have horrible spelling.
• Kevin
  A couple points to expand.
  
  1) I think its important to realize the diversity of Asia America (I address it in my Epik High post, which I'm too lazy to link) in many ways impede the social growth of Asia America as a whole.
  
  2)
  
  " If you all think hard enough, other than physical features and politics, there is very little the very “race-conscience” people in the States can use to mentally hurt Asians. I mentioned all that, because those type of attitudes have some effect on AA’s. In a strange sense, the “model minority” myth is often kept alive by such attitudes. IMHO, it is a wrong attitude, but the point I want to make that there is very little for Asians to feel inferior or too superior to other people.
  
  I think one reason out of many why many AA’s appear to be quite apathetic, is because of such attitudes and experiences. It’s not like Asians haven’t faced discrimination for whatever reason, but it’s a bit different for each society.."
  
  My thoughts exactly; and that's why I say this level of praise and comfort is both a facade and a fallacy. To assume that Asia America is doing extremely well financially is wrong, and while a part of Asia America could be, as a collective, doing well; another part is not and to generalize Asia America as well off is unfair. That's like saying all Caucasians are well off because they're Caucasian and statistically speaking they make more money as a collective then African Americans. That like if I said if Laotians aren't doing as well as Koreans, but Asia America is doing well as whole, so we don't have to support any part of Asia America (and this is just an unfounded example, don't take that statement to heart). I mean I would look silly. A Korean community in place A could be in a horrible financial situation and a Laotian family could be extremely well off. But that's inherently the argument people make time and time again.
  
  But I also think its because Asian American History has been lost in the annals of American history. But I mean coming from the west coast, learning about the railroad workers or the Gold Rush, and then soon after moving to the east coast and not having a sentence on such an issue sort of reflects the status of Asian American History in most places. That sort of experience didn't not exist, its just that no one can learn from them because no one learns about them growing up. We grow up with MLK and such, but never with Vincent Chin. It's there, its just that America doesn't see it. We skipped the step/rode the coattails of other social movements towards civil rights and assumed a position of equality and are comfortable with it. I think that's the current position Gaga is in. S/he believes we are past a step where race should or is an issue in the world, and that these incidents are just isolated acts of ignorance. I think otherwise; I think these incidents play into a greater scheme of social unawareness covered by a facade of comfort we have settled into it. Of course, I'm just trying to summarize Gaga's arguments and can't say for sure if it is accurate.
• Daniel W.
  Hi Keven,
  
  Well, I was thinking about the comments here and it may not be wise to make any absolute assumptions about the other person's positions on issues. Based on the comments here, it's quite neutral in some sense where it doesn't indicate a particular view, just a big maybe.
  
  I originally had a short list of reasons why I think many Asian-Americans "appear" to be apathetic towards social issues, but after reviewing my opinions, it may not be relevant in this thread since it's specifically about college students.
  
  I know that many people during the college years, oh mid-teens to even early 30s for some people, go through a lot of phases to discover their place in society, etc. It's a life-long quest, and your opinions now may not be the same in a few years.
  
  I had a friend in high school who was totally into the Azn pryde fling (this was in the non-urban Midwest remember)but in college went opposite and would rather have nothing to do with anything Asian unless he has too, usually meaning family events. Another aquantince of mine in high school was you could say a hard-core "twinkie" but in college had one of those so-called "born-again Asian" identity "conversions" and now is really into almost anything Asian-American. However, I still see them as the same person. It's the same character just the visible expressions/mentality is superficially different. I'm pretty sure everyone has their own story to tell even if it's incomplete or a work-in-progress mode.
• Daniel W.
  Sorry I spelled your name wrong.
• TK
  Hey!
  I was one of the students involved in planning a rally around this event at Tufts. For information about the rally click here http://www.tuftsdaily.com/rally-goers-we-will-n.... Thanks for covering this event. The more media coverage we get, the more we can get the administration to make real change in curriculum and judicial policy. Feel free to contact me.